Wagos on Final Ring Circuits

[John-SJW]

I'm liking this idea. May cut down on future ring continuity problems

I actually suggested it to them. It saves them so much time. And a much professional job. One will take all the sockets, FCU, etc, of job home as he has a workbench in his garage. There could be 40-50 of these. He cuts the 2.5mm flex cable (L,N,E sheathed) into approx 6 inch lengths, strips them fixing the tails into the outlets, switches etc. This can take the best part of a day, depending how many.

For the 2nd fix they then just put clip the tails into the Wagos (or In-Sure) inside the backboxes,. The sockets easily push back being on flexible cable. They then screw up the sockets using a battery screwdriver finishing off with a hand screwdriver, taking about a minute or two for each socket.

When installing in flats they also use Wagos in the switch backboxes to link up the lighting radial. Again, using flex cable to the light switch, fixing into the light switch on a bench.

 

[LastManOnline]

I recall as kid we smelled burning in a bedroom. My sister's table lamp was melting - around the switch.

It was melting at the switch because of either a defective switch or because of a loose connection. Your neighbours well intentioned solution of sticking on a 1 amp fuse rather than a 13 amp fuse would make no difference. Fuses don't detect poor connections. They only detect overloading. Your neighbours suggestion is a good example of a "solution" being provided for a "problem" that did, nt exist

 

[MrMan1O1]

I actually suggested it to them. It saves them so much time. And a much professional job. One will take all the sockets, FCU, etc, of job home as he has a workbench in his garage. There could be 40-50 of these. He cuts the 2.5mm flex cable (L,N,E sheathed) into approx 6 inch lengths, strips them fixing the tails into the outlets, switches etc. This can take the best part of a day, depending how many.

For the 2nd fix they then just put clip the tails into the Wagos (or In-Sure) inside the backboxes,. The sockets easily push back being on flexible cable. They then screw up the sockets using a battery screwdriver finishing off with a hand screwdriver, taking about a minute or two for each socket.

When installing in flats they also use Wagos in the switch backboxes to link up the lighting radial. Again, using flex cable to the light switch, fixing into the light switch on a bench.

Your suggestion. That figures. Why on earth would anyone design a RFC with every socket actually a spur? I don't get it. I'm trying not to judge and to remain curious but surely this can't be right? Does the person signing off the design actually know that his guys are doing this? What's their motivation for doing it? I don't believe that the assertion that wagos make better connections is the driving force. As you've written in bold the true reason is speed, so therefore the only motivation appears to be greed .... and maybe it makes them feel "clever". In the location of a backbox the cables are pretty well restrained so the screwed terminals won't see any vibrations, and certainly not enough to loosen a screwed terminal that was tight in the first place. The main opportunity for wires to become loose in a socket screwed terminal is when they are manipulated as the socket is pushed onto the backbox. Personally I always pull the socket back out just enough to get to the terminals and retighten.... very occasionally there's one that will nip up slightly.
Pre-wired sockets and battery screwdrivers! Really!? Sounds like these guys would better employed on a factory production line.

 

[LastManOnline]

I will take pics of my fused lamp sockets next time i am in Spain. FYI, some of the light switches, such as those that operate wall-mounted bedside lamps and others, also have fuses in them.

I have no doubt that the fuses in your case are there for a legitimate reason. What I wanted to highlight was that the lack of fuses in European plugtops is not due to poor electrical design as the OP suggests. Their 16 amp circuit fuses adequately protect their appliance leads because the appliance leads, are sized accordingly. Its worth bearing in mind that the CE mark is a European standard which stipulates that any appliance manufacturer must ensure that their appliances are suitable for the fixed wiring system they are being used in.
We in the UK and Ireland would have to increase appliance lead sizes significantly because of the ring circuit with its 32 amp circuit protection. However the fused plugtop allows us to have similar sized leads as the europeans.

 

[LastManOnline]

. The maximum rating for a 0.75mm cable is 6 amp. It needs 6 amp or lower protection, not 16 or 20 amp. Run 20 amps through a 0.75mm flex then see what happens to it.

You are confused about the current a cable can safely carry continuously and the short circuit current the cable can safely handle.
For instance the 0.75mm rated at 6 amp would in fact have adequate short circuit protection via a 13 amp fused plug top.

 

[brianmoooore]

Why on earth would anyone design a RFC with every socket actually a spur? I

The original specification for a RFC was a to serve a maximum area of 100 sq. yrds., and that the number of spurs could not exceed the number of sockets on the ring.
This often lead to a complete ring being installed on the first floor, with a spur from every socket to a socket on the ground floor.

 

[MrMan1O1]

The original specification for a RFC was a to serve a maximum area of 100 sq. yrds., and that the number of spurs could not exceed the number of sockets on the ring.
This often lead to a complete ring being installed on the first floor, with a spur from every socket to a socket on the ground floor.

Yes, understood, although this again would leave no flexibility for future changes, ie would need to expand the ring in order to add extra sockets. I was referring to the practice of making a ring using wagos in the backboxes and wiring in each socket on 2.5 flex so each one would be a spur off the ring. Seems to me it would be just adding loads of extra connections in the backbox that really don't need to be there...there are perfectly good terminals on the socket...and no opportunity to add extra sockets as spurs at some point in the future.

 

[boris1]

Yes, understood, although this again would leave no flexibility for future changes, ie would need to expand the ring in order to add extra sockets. I was referring to the practice of making a ring using wagos in the backboxes and wiring in each socket on 2.5 flex so each one would be a spur off the ring. Seems to me it would be just adding loads of extra connections in the backbox that really don't need to be there...there are perfectly good terminals on the socket...and no opportunity to add extra sockets as spurs at some point in the future.

I may not fully understand but if you can pull the original FRC wires back into the [back]box then you can expand the FRC in the future. Saves work now at the expense of a more difficult possible future renovation.

 

[AJshep]

Just caught up with this thread!

Wagos are great, but I don't like the idea of adding an additional conections on a RFC just so someone can come along later, with pre wired sockets and spur them off of the ring. Is this really what people do so they can and save a few seconds? if this is what people have to result too to make money then there is an issue somewhere, people that work like this just add to it!

Wagos are not busbars, they don't have busbars inside, they have a cage clamp looking at their data they are tested to EC 60947, 60998 and more specifically IEC 60999-1:1999.

 

[John-SJW]

The original specification for a RFC was a to serve a maximum area of 100 sq. yrds., and that the number of spurs could not exceed the number of sockets on the ring.
This often lead to a complete ring being installed on the first floor, with a spur from every socket to a socket on the ground floor.

It does not often lead to that. That is an exception.

 

[John-SJW]

It was melting at the switch because of either a defective switch or because of a loose connection.

Exactly. A fault condition. A 1A fuse would have blown before a fire situation occurred.

 

[John-SJW]

there are perfectly good terminals on the socket..

Are they? Look again!

Using the terminals on the rear of the socket and using non-flexible 2.5mm cable, often means a poor connection. The amount of times I have taken out a socket to find the two 2.5mm cables have moved near out of the connection, or dropped out, is quite a lot. Wagos make a vastly superior connection than shoving two cables into one terminal that could loosen over time or be party dislodged when pushing in the socket using non-flexible cable.

Having Wagos secure the integrity of a ring is a great approach - superb in testing for the 1st fix. Then having flex from the superb connections Wagos give to the socket, with only only one wire connection at the socket, with no chance of the wire being dislodged in the socket connection as flexible wires are used, improves continuity and safety by a considerable measure. Ramming two 2.5mm cables into a socket terminal using non-flexible cable is a real dumb idea.

A win, win, all around. Safer! And quicker.

 

[John-SJW]

Wagos are not busbars, they don't have busbars inside,

They do. Look at them. I gave a photo of the bus bar inside them.

 

[LastManOnline]

Exactly. A fault condition. A 1A fuse would have blown before a fire situation occurred.

Nonsense. I, m out.

 

[DPG]

They do. Look at them. I gave a photo of the bus bar inside them.

You could say that about some other multi way connectors too, it is not specific to Wagos. It does not make them bus bars, or make them suitable to get around the multiple spurs from a single point on an RFC rule.

You seem insistant on finding a way around this regulation.