Wagos on Final Ring Circuits

[John-SJW]

I'm sure pretty much everyone uses Wago connectors (albeit as they are designed to be used).

Here is their guide:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/DataSheets/Wago/Wago_Guide.pdf

I see nothing that says you cannot use it to have a few spurs off the Wago, ultilising the internal bus bar to its advantage in a ring circuit. It does not even mention rings.

 

[DPG]

I do? New on me, but I will give it a try. When the current is over the rating of the fuse. I got 10/10.

Nope. They will hold at over the rated current for quite some time. But you were close.

What they won't do is rupture when there is a loose connection. A loose connection does not cause an increase in fault current through the fuse.

 

[John-SJW]

Socket outlets terminals are designed to take multiple conductors, the terminals are fixed and they have gone through a testing process to comply with BS1363

Two solid core cables in a socket, FCU's, etc, terminals is not a good thing at all. When pushed back, stress is on the wires/terminal. I have come across many that fell out when a socket was removed - they were tight before the socket was pushed back. The screws also work loose over time with expansion/contraction. Unlike Maintenance free Wagos. Two cables are never in a Wago terminal. One flexible cable is far superior into the rear of a socket/FCU etc. It just is.

I never suggested using Wagos in appliance grids. Another poster pointed out the clustering on a ring, or radial of a dedicated appliance switching module.

 

[DPG]

Two solid core cables in a socket, FCU's, etc, terminals is not a good thing at all. When pushed back, stress is on the wires/terminal. I have come across many that fell out when a socket was removed - they were tight before the socket was pushed back. The screws also work loose over time with expansion/contraction. Unlike Maintenance free Wagos. Two cables are never in in a Wago terminal. One flexible cable is far superior into the rear of a socket/FCU etc. It just is.

Now that is the first post of yours which I agree with. Well, mostly anyway.

 

[John-SJW]

Your method will probably never cause an issue....

My initial point was that the internal bus bar in a Wago can be used to take off a few Spurs from the Wago, when on a ring circuit. Below: the bus bars can be clearly seen on a three connection Wago (left) and a four connection In-Sure connector on the right.
Ring in and out of the end connections, making the bus bar a part of the ring, then two spurs off that, using the middle connections - all legal.

 

[John-SJW]

Now that is the first post of yours which I agree with. Well, mostly anyway.

Ah! We are getting somewhere! ?

 

[DPG]

My initial point was that the internal bus bar in a Wago can be used to take off a few Spurs from the Wago, one a ring. Below the bus bars can be clearly seen on a three connection Wago (left) and a four connection In-Sure connector on the right.
Ring in and out of the end connections, making the bus bar a part of the ring, then two spurs off that, using the middle connections - all legal.

View attachment 63948

It makes NO difference AT ALL whether you use the outer position or the one next to it. The connector is rated for the specified current. 5mm of copper makes virtually zero difference.

 

[DPG]

Ah! We are getting somewhere! ?

Yep, I agree that sometimes connections can work loose if people are careless. Always push the socket back, then re check the screws are tight before final fix.

 

[AJshep]

Ring in and out of the end connections, making the bus bar a part of the ring, then two spurs off that, using the middle connections - all legal.

Not compliant with Bs7671 though, that would technically be 2 spurs off one connection on the ring.

 

[John-SJW]

Yep, I agree that sometimes connections can work loose if people are careless. Always push the socket back, then re check the screws are tight before final fix.

That is time and effort. Then there is the prospect of the terminal screws loosening over time - happened on one of mine, an FCU supplying a dryer. The ring's current runs through those socket terminals, which is not a good thing.

Having the ring run through a maintenance free Wago in the back box, with a felxible cable into the sockets from the Wago is a far superior solution. The Wagos connections take the current load around the ring, not working loose over time. The ring's current flow is kept away from the socket's terminals. Current only flows through a sockets flex wires and terminals when the socket is switched on drawing current. Superior, safer and quicker solution.

In Germany they sell sockets with Wago connections on the back, making matters even easier and safer.

 

[John-SJW]

Not compliant with Bs7671 though, that would technically be 2 spurs off one connection on the ring.

Each spur has its own connection on the Wago, taken off the internal bus bar, not taken off one connection.
Look at the photo.

 

[AJshep]

Each spur has its own connection on the Wago, taken off the internal bus bar, not taken off one connection.
Look at the photo.

Its not a busbar, its a connector with multiple cable outlets.
I know you keep referring to the solid continuous piece of metal inside of the wago as a busbar, I get it, it even functions like a busbar. But its not a busbar its a connector, thats it's purpose and thats the standards its been tested too. If you want to convince me that wagos are busbars then your need to show us the relevant BSI documentation.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

@AJshep please be careful not to get sucked into this thing now! By condensing each point into just the width of one port on a Wago 221, it seems the OP managed to wire up an RFC smaller than its own Schwarzschild radius and it collapsed into a black hole. This is now pulling cables, sockets, junction boxes and possibly electricians too, across its event horizon. As the materials accelerate away from us, the Lorentz-Fitzgerald contraction makes cables look like busbars and busbars look like single terminals. Due to gravitational lensing it is no longer even possible to distinguish a ring from a spur.

The singularity beckons...

 

[pirate]

 

[DJAndy]

View attachment 63950

That's a bit bigger than 5mm. But is it a single point?