warning to other sparks about safe zones!

[tanglewood]

Hi all, First fixed refurbished kitchen in old property, stripped out old wiring, ran in new ring main to kitchen and cooker circuit. Really awkward cable runs due to new steel RSJ across width of kitchen, and no access from 2nd floor. All cables run in 17th edition 'safe zones' , problem comes from kitchen fitters (bless um) drilling 150mm core hole for extractor hose within 150mm from ceiling! Yep, straight through cables with 6" core drill ! Customer blaming me for ,'because you knew there was an extractor going there' Me explaining that cables had to be run there and showing safe zone diagram to customer and kitchen fitter. Result...kitchen fitters arent electricians and we as sparkys have to make sure (although our job is hard enough as it is) that other trades are aware of safe zones!

 

[Big n Daft]

Part P, regs for this that and other actually mean bugger all in the real world. I assume thats why the 30ma rcd reg is there.

 

[sparks72]

Part P, regs for this that and other actually mean bugger all in the real world. I assume thats why the 30ma rcd reg is there.

Absolutely.
Imo & many other peoples opinion part pee is nothing more than a tax on the working man.

Just follow BS7671 & the electricity at work regulations.

 

[sparks72]

surely incompetence is a mandatory requirement for qualifying as a kitchen fitter?

They don't care as long as they get their job done.

 

[Big n Daft]

"Just follow BS7671 & the electricity at work regulations".
And building control should enforce, just like they do for builders.
In fact Building Control should be a national not a local authority with big nasty teeth. It should carry a register of tradesmen and companies doing the job of the schemes, this means all trades inc Gas.
Companies should pay on a sliding scale determined by their size and job lodgement fees should be on financial worth as well.
Any takers, gets rid of the "tax on trades".

 

[1shortcircuit]

Ha, aren't we supposed to leave drawings/diagrams of the installation?

First question would be "Are there any"

Second would be "Were they asked for"

If they weren't asked for then clearly it's the kitchen fitters error If there weren't any there then clearly the customer has misplaced them... No??? lol

 

[hasel5]

Were these cables run under the rsj and if so was this where the fitters cored out ?

 

[gazz1]

was this wall newly plastered ? i normally put a faint pencil mark on the wall of cable runs just in case other trades decide to drill holes. As they always drill through something you always have to tell them more than once that if you see a skt or switch the cables run up and accross.

 

[ian]

I mentioned safe zones to one of my neighbours earlier this week and was met with a very puzzled look.

Its all very well having safe zones, Part P etc BUT this important information needs to be marekted to Joe Public.

As for your kitchen fitters - they REALLY should know better!

Cant agrees with comment enough. I have had 3 calls in 6 weeks from a kitchenfitter that drills through cables while hanging wall units. He just cant seemto understand safe zones despite me explaining them to him 7 or 8 times. Whenever I work from him I mark on the wall thelocations of the cables I install.

ian

 

[sparks72]

"Just follow BS7671 & the electricity at work regulations".
And building control should enforce, just like they do for builders.
In fact Building Control should be a national not a local authority with big nasty teeth. It should carry a register of tradesmen and companies doing the job of the schemes, this means all trades inc Gas.
Companies should pay on a sliding scale determined by their size and job lodgement fees should be on financial worth as well.
Any takers, gets rid of the "tax on trades".

The problem is that BS7671 isn't law. The Electricity at Work Regulations act is, the ONLY people who can enforce this are the the HSE, & they seem non existant until someone gets killed.

 

[DaveyD]

Old thread I know but the fact is that two kitchen fitters I have worked with ...
First did not know I could run horizontally between accesories.
Second did not know about the top and corner 150mm.
I take photos before the plasterer.
I do have a question for you all chaps - what do you think of this ... Getting cables back out of the room I am not keen on running differing circuits behind or into sockets just so I have that zonal "protection" so I go into the zone corner. Then the fitters moan as thats where their brackets are for the wall units - right in the corner.
Also I am keen on using that 150mm at the top of the wall with a high load circuit so it's not going to be covered one side in insulation. They seem to pack it in now and then add another 50mm celatex screwed up before the plasterboard. Am I alone? I think I may be.
Kind Regards
David

 

[Des 56]

The designers of kitchen equipment and the Iet need to get some discussions going

You are certainly not alone when it comes to corner zones and kitchen cupboards
More and more of these cupboards have the fixing smack on the edge of the cupboard

 

[DaveyD]

The designers of kitchen equipment and the Iet need to get some discussions going

You are certainly not alone when it comes to corner zones and kitchen cupboards
More and more of these cupboards have the fixing smack on the edge of the cupboard

Thanks for your valued reply Des, so .... would you design another way?

 

[Des 56]

I notice that older styles of cupboards usually had a hook fitting a couple of inches off edge,why they all seem to have migrated to the edge and for what reason I wouldn't like to guess

The solution I suppose is, as the Beatles once sang "get back to where you once belonged"

 

[DaveyD]

I only have 6 inches Des.

 

[ackbarthestar]

The designers of kitchen equipment and the Iet need to get some discussions going

You are certainly not alone when it comes to corner zones and kitchen cupboards
More and more of these cupboards have the fixing smack on the edge of the cupboard

I don't think so.....

Kitchen Fitters and The Building Control Regulations need to get together.

Approved Documents contained within the Building Control Regs are there for all the trades that work on domestic properties. Part P is a simplification for those who can't read, that would include Kitchen fitters, Plasterers, Brickies, Plumbers and some Gas fitters :rofl: