what code

[bigspark17]

Quote by risturd.- MIGHT NOT BE IS NOT THE SAME THING AS DEFINITELY ISN'T (OR DEFINITELY IS).

What on earth are you on about, seriously.? I toatally agree with spin london! You are saying if it was compliant then it isntbcompliant now, so as ive stated before you will deem plastic consumer units next year a c2.!!!! Dont you see its the same thing.???

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I didn't say that so don't pretend that I did. I said that just because it complied at the time of construction doesn't necessarily mean that it is safe by today's standards.

That doesn't mean that I said that it won't be safe - just that aspects MIGHT NOT be.

MIGHT NOT BE IS NOT THE SAME THING AS DEFINITELY ISN'T (OR DEFINITELY IS).

Honestly, it's very simple English.

It depends on the specifics of the installation.

You can't have it both ways.
You have stated categorically that would apply a code C2 where a shower is not protected by an RCD.
BS 7671 informs us that an installation with a code C2 would be unsatisfactory.
As the whole point of conducting an inspection is to determine whether an installation is safe for continued use, any code which results in an unsatisfactory determination is effectively deeming the installation as being unsafe.

 

[Blademan_98]

My house does not have any RCD's in it. It was built in the 1960's and wired in black & red T&E.
80A CU that has 4 circuits, 2 x 32A and 2 x 6A.
In readyness for my exam tomorrow I am going to do a full EICR on it today
From this discussion I am confused about how I should code the entire thing now!
Cheers
B

 

[telectrix]

My house does not have any RCD's in it. It was built in the 1960's and wired in black & red T&E.
80A CU that has 4 circuits, 2 x 32A and 2 x 6A.
In readyness for my exam tomorrow I am going to do a full EICR on it today
From this discussion I am confused about how I should code the entire thing now!
Cheers
B

easy.
1. are there any immediate dangers of shock or fire? if not no C1's.
2. are there any potential dangers? if not no C2's.
3. anytrhing that does not comply with current regs. or you think requires improvement, the C3's.

 

[Octopus]

easy.
1. are there any immediate dangers of shock or fire? if not no C1's.
2. are there any potential dangers? if not no C2's.
3. anytrhing that does not comply with current regs. or you think requires improvement, the C3's.

Tel - stop confusing matters - you are applying logic and common sense!

 

[telectrix]

have to get some in before senility overtakes me.

 

[Octopus]

have to get some in before senility overtakes me.

the he stupid thing is that the powers to be are saying we have to give a C2 to a plastic cu if it's under the stairs from next January.

I think this is stupidly at best, panicking people at the worst.

a plastic CU should be a C3 from next year, irrespective of location. Simples

 

[Blademan_98]

easy.
1. are there any immediate dangers of shock or fire? if not no C1's.
2. are there any potential dangers? if not no C2's.
3. anytrhing that does not comply with current regs. or you think requires improvement, the C3's.

So on the appendix 6 model form, section 4 18/19 I should put C3 as there are no RCD's but the system should have them by current regulations? For an additional comment, is it acceptable just to put 'not to BS7671:2008 Amd 3'?
Thanks,
B

 

[andyb]

the he stupid thing is that the powers to be are saying we have to give a C2 to a plastic cu if it's under the stairs from next January.

I think this is stupidly at best, panicking people at the worst.

a plastic CU should be a C3 from next year, irrespective of location. Simples

Where have you seen that Murdoch?
That can't be right can it?, I would of thought a c3.

So on the appendix 6 model form, section 4 18/19 I should put C3 as there are no RCD's but the system should have them by current regulations? For an additional comment, is it acceptable just to put 'not to BS7671:2008 Amd 3'?
Thanks,
B

By putting any code you are saying that it is not to bs7671:2008, you don't have to keep repeating it.

 

[Blademan_98]

After going through my own notes and the IET recommendations I found the following:
2 Older installations designed prior to BS 7671:2008 may not have been provided with RCDs for additional
protection. The absence of such protection should as a minimum be given a code C3 classification (item 5.12).
So sorry for high jacking the thread
B

 

[Risteard]

You can't have it both ways.
You have stated categorically that would apply a code C2 where a shower is not protected by an RCD.
BS 7671 informs us that an installation with a code C2 would be unsatisfactory.
As the whole point of conducting an inspection is to determine whether an installation is safe for continued use, any code which results in an unsatisfactory determination is effectively deeming the installation as being unsafe.

I'm not "having it both ways". I am stating that that particular non-compliance renders the installation unsafe. That does not suggest that every other non-compliance would necessarily render it unsafe though.

How can you even claim that that is what I said?

 

[Octopus]

Where have you seen that Murdoch?
That can't be right can it?, I would of thought a c3.
it.

Can't immediately remember, it was on one of the 3 forums I think.

will think about it and see what I can find

 

[Richard Burns]

As the installation is being assessed for safety for continued use based on a comparison with the current version of the wiring regulations if there are no non conformances with the current edition of the wiring regulations by definition (The IET's definition) the installation cannot be unsafe.
Therefore there would be no code that could be applied.

Once there is a part of the installation that does not conform to the current edition of the wiring regulations it is then up to the inspector to assess the level of risk that this non conformance poses to the continued safety of operation.
There are guidelines presented from various sources providing recommendations, but these are merely an aid to the inspector to help them decide the appropriate level of risk.

The codes on the EICR form indicate that C1 is an immediate danger, C2 is a potential danger and C3 is improvement recommended.

Often these are described as danger immediately apparent such as exposed live conductors; danger in the case of a fault occurring on the installation;improvement of the installation is recommended to reduce a potential risk that is not present and will not present itself on a fault occurring. However this is not the statement on the form.
Tel's description puts it better than me.

A lack of RCD protection presents risk only on an earth fault and the inspector has to consider the risks of an earth fault occurring, the likelihood of contact with the earth fault and the physiological effects of that earth fault.
C1 and no code is not applicable as there is no immediate risk but there is a risk.
The level of risk is assessed by the inspector by considering the installation and the specific circumstances in order to determine is C2 or C3 is appropriate.

 

[HandySparks]

the he stupid thing is that the powers to be are saying we have to give a C2 to a plastic cu if it's under the stairs from next January.

I think this is stupidly at best, panicking people at the worst.

a plastic CU should be a C3 from next year, irrespective of location. Simples

ESF Best Practice Guide 4, issue 4, says plastic CUs get a C3 if under stairs or on a sole escape route. (And, by implication, no code if located elsewhere.)

 

[Deleted member 26818]

So on the appendix 6 model form, section 4 18/19 I should put C3 as there are no RCD's but the system should have them by current regulations? For an additional comment, is it acceptable just to put 'not to BS7671:2008 Amd 3'?
Thanks,
B

The type of comment I would make would be:
Lack of RCD protection for socket-outlets. Reg. No. xyz. Code C3.
Lack of RCD protection for circuits of a location containing a bath or shower. Reg. No. xyz. Code C3.
Lack of RCD protection for mobile equipment used outdoors. Reg. No. xyz. Code C2.
I would not explain why I have applied various codes on the form.