What is a Domestic Installer ?

[Dave Buchan]

Hi guys,

Here's an interesting one for you, if you look at the attachment on this post from the IET they define a domestic installer as " not an electrician "

If you go to the niceic website and click the 'FIND ELECTRICIAN' tab and select 'ALL ELECTRICAL WORK' it will display various domestic installers and approved contractors in your local area.

So is the domestic installer an ELECTRICIAN?

According to the people who write the national safety standards apparently this is not the case.......

Yet the guys who regulate them for crucial safety reasons seem to know otherwise.....

So who is right?

The IET

or

NICEIC

 

[Des 56]

All I am going to say is, I have done industrial installation and maintenance,commercial installation and domestic installation, with a short period labouring for my plasterer brother

I consider myself to be "a unit of labour"
If I didn't need the money,you could call me whatever you wanted to, as long as I didn't after get up tomorrow and stick another screwdriver in my hand.
I'll drink to that
:54:

 

[focusphil]

its called having a laugh man..makes the world go round...

SORRY ! only if you read the posts some people mean it

 

[Big n Daft]

I consider myself to be "a unit of labour"
Steady on Dessie old fella!!!
I thought I was on the forum for sec then

 

[electromonkey]

I think a new word has been invented. Domesticinstalleraphobic.

This argument is flawed on so many levels but ultimately boils down to this. In working life, not just the electrical industry, some people are good at what they do, and some people aren't. You may have lots of qualifications, you may not have many. This ultimately does not make you good or bad at your own job. How you do your job makes you good or bad.

 

[baldsparkies]

All joking aside lads, this is such a diverse trade.
There are so many levels of expertise and knowledge/experiance building that you can be in the game for umpteen years and will always be learning throughout.
Being a domestic sparks, is really about what your happy to do. If thats where your bread and butter lies then so be it. If youv'e been in the field long enough to gain experiance and with a competant working knowledge of how to do the job right, then your a domestic electrician by definition.
Moving on from there, commercial industrial work is far more complex for a variety of reasons, and any good electrician domestic or otherwise would fully appreciate this. There was a time when experiance and knowledge went hand in hand and stood for something. We all have to accept that some sparks have more experiance and knowledge than others. Surely that applies to all walks of life.
Lets not beat ourselves up about it.
At 58 I'm still learning the trade. And then again, I have my moments when I can pass on my knowledge to others.
If anyone thinks they have learnt all there is to know then think again. Sometimes we can teach and sometimes we can learn, doing it together, and helping each other out on sites just like this is really what its all about.

 

[sbrown2]

I did an elecrtical apprenticeship.......but now I want to do apprenticeship in how to make money, I think it'll make me happier!!!!!!!!

 

[stevie2011]

it annoys me that people think they can train to be a spark in 5 weeks, and think they can charge the same. like anything it takes time to develop a skill, whatever it is.

same in this country for martial arts, seems anyone can get a black belt these days, but can they really fight?

sure you might be quick and learn the idea quickly, but to build the speed and get it to come naturally to you takes time, even sparkys who have been doing the job 20 years can learn something new, so people going to a trade centre to get a certificate that makes them think they are entitled to £160 a day does annoy me. I've seen it, and these blokes although not completely clueless are charging clients large sums of money for the privilege of letting them train in their houses. I think everyone should do their training even if they are late to game.

 

[nelson19]

2 & 3!!!

 

[sbrown2]

Looks like the authorities are raising the standard with the requirements for a NVQ 3. This will take time to raise the standard as so many of your hated 5 dayers are in the trade already and now have grandfather rights with the schemes. What I would like to ask the so called "so many day wonders"...if any of you have good business brains can you share some tips.

 

[onetrack]

Well this thread has certainly been an interesting read. I am currently not a DI but have been considering this career change. As others on this thread I have a degree in electronics and over 20years experience in practical and design etc, I believe I am competent and have a good understanding of electrical theory.
So, after reading the previous comments I'm thinking whether I should even consider being a DI? granted it will take time to gain the practical experience but if you have the formal qualifications does that not put you on the right path atleast?
I would happily stick to domestic work so I don't see why I have to be aiming for commercial work so I can be a fully fledged electrician?

 

[stevie2011]

The amount of threads regarding this stevie.......i have said it before and i will say it again-As long as the cash for these "training centres" keeps rollin in....they`l keep churnin em out. The ONLY way in my opinion is for training centres to be better regulated as to the standard of those who pass their courses and thus enter industry and to the suitability of those who wish to undertake certain courses they offer (2391-10 2391-20) etc.......

they do better vetting, but really, in the end the problem is that people are willing to pay these people to come into their homes. if theres work someone will grab it, under experienced or not. in the end i wouldn't be sure to what the solution is. but i've seen it, a bloke who's only had a bit of practice trying to take on a job at a slow pace, making mistakes and making the customer pay him day rate. if people don't mind being screwed then it will carry on. there also seems to be a myth that if they get a proper electrician he'll end up charging more than the new guy, when infact an experienced bloke will end up doing it much faster, and will end up costing less because he isn't slow. So in the end i think the problem is the consumer.

Anyway if an electronic engineer is thinking of changing trades, you're theory might be very good, but theres a skill in fault finding, getting your routes and all that like any trade that takes a long time to get a pace. nothings stopping you having a go at it, but having to be on the tools might find you at a push for time. i think everyone should do their training for these reasons. i'm sure this isn't the only business thats suffering because people think it won't take long to train up in.

 

[Graeme Harrold]

I think a new word has been invented. Domesticinstalleraphobic.

This argument is flawed on so many levels but ultimately boils down to this. In working life, not just the electrical industry, some people are good at what they do, and some people aren't. You may have lots of qualifications, you may not have many. This ultimately does not make you good or bad at your own job. How you do your job makes you good or bad.

Couldnt agree more, kind of what I said earlier without rambling.

Only the good survive irrespective on how they trained. Unfortunately the industry is geared towards the apprentice start, so only the industry is to blame. I tried to go through the night school route, but the local colleges were not interested. I am fortunate, as my background gave me an enormous boost. I do agree a 5 week wonder who has been stacking shelves in Tesco all his life will not be anywhere as good as someone who as changed trade streams. I knew from the outset it would be harder, and thats what drives me on. Im lucky in having a natural ability with hands on work, plus I have the added advantage of being of an above average intelligence which is why I breezed through my HND, DEI, 17th edn and 2391.

Fault finding is down to logic and confidence. I have been called out to help a time served spark. he knew what he was doing, he was well qualified, he just lacked confidence to believe in his own findings.

Moral.....THOSE WHO CAN DO! I stay within my limit of comfort, I leave the industrial and large commercial where it belongs and I concentrate on doing what I do well.

 

[baldsparkies]

Well this thread has certainly been an interesting read. I am currently not a DI but have been considering this career change. As others on this thread I have a degree in electronics and over 20years experience in practical and design etc, I believe I am competent and have a good understanding of electrical theory.
So, after reading the previous comments I'm thinking whether I should even consider being a DI? granted it will take time to gain the practical experience but if you have the formal qualifications does that not put you on the right path atleast?
I would happily stick to domestic work so I don't see why I have to be aiming for commercial work so I can be a fully fledged electrician?

As long as you realise that you are on a learning curve from day 1 of being in someones property then fine.
Your degree in electronics, should not be considered a qualification in competance to complete a house rewire, it's not.
Theory do go hand in hand with practical experiance, its the sum of the parts that make you competant.
From what you say, you lack practical experiance, just be aware of that, and don't be to proud to admit it.
I once attended a property owned by a university lecturer. He had wired a 9kw shower into a 16A immersion radial circuit. I was there because he thought the new shower might be faulty !!!
I have said this before , so forgive me for repeating it.
Being competant is as much about knowing what you don't know, as it is about knowing what you do know.

 

[Graeme Harrold]

Being competant is as much about knowing what you don't know, as it is about knowing what you do know.

Thought Id give this promanance as it is a 1 line quote that sums everything up.

"Onetrack" - the other area you will struggle with when you start out is product knowledge. Knowing what is out there, what is new to the market and where it can and can not be used. Good luck

 

[onetrack]

Graeme and baldsparkies thanks for your input. Points taken aboard. totally agree with regards to practical experience and product knowledge. I am in know way proud to admit lack of experience. just highlighting where I stand. After reading the thread I thought there is absolutely no point in persuing the DI route, saying that I am still in two minds.
But your feedback is appreciated.