where do I stand....

[The Ranger]

here goes the cupboard where my DB is is a disgrace to be honest it's not going to kill anyone but i can no longer put up with it! (not done by me BTW)
So it's coming out and I'll re do it as I see fit
No offence to anyone that does domestic installs but it's just not me I don't do them, but i'm begrudged paying someone a job I can quite happily do and is within my comfort zone. I'm fully qualified 2391 passed etc
but here's the hang up as I show little interest in domestic's this means i also show little interest in part P so I'm not part P registered I have no interest in being part P registered.

where do i stand?

kind regards

 

[dixon9]

if i were you, i would just carry out the work, and then wait for somebody to try and take you to court, at which point you will baffle the judge with electrical principles, and common sense will prevail.
PS, i doubt anybody would be taken to court, even if the council found out.

To be honest, this is a massive failing with part P. Even if you did pay the council, they would ask for a copy of your certs, and that would be it. so there wouldnt be any difference anyway.

So those of us all paying near 500 quid a year to be part-p registered may just as well not pay for part-p anymore and do as above then?

 

[flukey]

all is well until you come to sell up and move on.
my brother is in the process of buying a new place and the current owner has had a few bits done that havent been notified which has earned him a price reduction

 

[The Ranger]

So those of us all paying near 500 quid a year to be part-p registered may just as well not pay for part-p anymore and do as above then?

does part p make you any superior to anyone else no it was a big con that ended up costing a lot of decent electricians lots of work

put the shoe on the other foot would you pay someone to do a job you can quite happily do?

 

[micknew]

It doesn't make them superior, it just shows that they are qualified to carry out the works to the required standard.
There are a lot of electricians who use the excuse that they cannot be bothered to become part p registered when in fact the reason is they are not of the required standard.

 

[The Ranger]

I wouldn't be ome part p registered as it has no benefit to me theres nothing in the environment I go to work in every day that would ever give me the need to be part p registered!

 

[Rockingit]

I wouldn't be ome part p registered as it has no benefit to me theres nothing in the environment I go to work in every day that would ever give me the need to be part p registered!

Hmmm.....can you not agree that there is a contradiction in that statement with things specifically domestic, that have special part p requirements - bathrooms, kitchens etc etc? So you claim to know enough enough about everything else (no problem with that at all) but also cannot demonstrate through either 'experience', training or assessment that you know about domestic special locations.

I'm not trying to have a go, and am sure that yes you ARE perfectly experienced/knowledgeable/capable, just reinforcing my earlier comments that this just adds mud to the water and is currently confusing to Mrs Jones who is looking at a quote for £500 from a proper sparks to do a Part P notifiable job, that her nephew says he'll do for a cup of tea and £50 for the bits, CURRENTLY READING THIS FORUM!

 

[The Ranger]

Hmmm.....can you not agree that there is a contradiction in that statement with things specifically domestic, that have special part p requirements - bathrooms, kitchens etc etc? So you claim to know enough enough about everything else (no problem with that at all) but also cannot demonstrate through either 'experience', training or assessment that you know about domestic special locations.

I'm not trying to have a go, and am sure that yes you ARE perfectly experienced/knowledgeable/capable, just reinforcing my earlier comments that this just adds mud to the water and is currently confusing to Mrs Jones who is looking at a quote for £500 from a proper sparks to do a Part P notifiable job, that her nephew says he'll do for a cup of tea and £50 for the bits, CURRENTLY READING THIS FORUM!

No I really can't, Bathrooms kitchens Etc etc were all deemed as special locations before part P was forced upon us and if we wasn't sure all we had to do was look in the bible! nothing has changed as much as all those that jumped on the part P band wagon thinks it have. The regs have never been a statutory document but if you abided by them you fulfilled the requirements set out in the EAWR1989 the Laws were already there to protect person, property and livestock if anyone thinks differently more fool them! I will happily say like many other episodes foxed upon our industry part P is just another money making episode that actually robbed qualified electricians of work!

 

[jase]

Just to add confusion to chaos ..... An electrician of 40 years electrocuted a choir boy by wiring up some church choir stall lamps wrongly.

I somehow couldn't say that he was incompetent as an electrician but his work was on that occasion.

So, perhaps, you are only as good as your last job,which means you need to stay up to date and on the ball with your work and forget about what other people do !
One way of maintaining a high standard is by continual assessment which is what one would hope was taking place by being part of an authorizing body.

he would not have had to be part p registered anyway, as i would not think that a church is Domestic

 

[Rockingit]

No I really can't, Bathrooms kitchens Etc etc were all deemed as special locations before part P was forced upon us and if we wasn't sure all we had to do was look in the bible! nothing has changed as much as all those that jumped on the part P band wagon thinks it have. The regs have never been a statutory document but if you abided by them you fulfilled the requirements set out in the EAWR1989 the Laws were already there to protect person, property and livestock if anyone thinks differently more fool them! I will happily say like many other episodes foxed upon our industry part P is just another money making episode that actually robbed qualified electricians of work!

Just out of interest, which bit of BS7671 covers kitchens?

 

[ackbarthestar]

he would not have had to be part p registered anyway, as i would not think that a church is Domestic

It could have been any domestic example. I used it because I had to give some advice to a solicitor regarding the matter.

Another example is where I hired a sparks I knew to install a cooker and a few other bits in the kitchen for me while I was out doing another job. When I got back my, now ex. said she was experiencing shocks off of the saucepan. I told her it was in her imagination and suggested that she try it again. Mistake !
At that point I decided to check the wiring and found he had neglected to connect the cpc - that was the last job he did for me !

Before you lot get excited, these two events happened over 20 years ago.

So then its about personal professional competence, not being a member of a club unless it has some form of regulatory control over its members.

I do agree that clubs that hoick up the costs of membership, do not perform their function of monitoring and support so that they can appear to be attractive lobbyists benefits nobody but leads to resentment and breakdown.

Approved Document P of the Building Regulations, IMO, fills the loop hole created by domestic installations. where anybody could previously do electrics. It was and is, in the whole, not the same for industrial installations.

It will take time to swing into operation but I suspect when venders realize that between £5k - £20k could be knocked off the price of a house sale because there was no evidence of regulation 134.1.1 then there will be to begin with a lot of dodgy certificates doing the rounds but then will settle down to an acceptable procedure, just like Gas working is now.

 

[The Ranger]

Just out of interest, which bit of BS7671 covers kitchens?

sorry i miss worded it kitchens are excluded from special locations!

there are many parts of 7671 that should be adhered to in a kitchen we could be here all day!

 

[ackbarthestar]

sorry i miss worded it kitchens are excluded from special locations!

there are many parts of 7671 that should be adhered to in a kitchen we could be here all day!

Even cross bonding where appropriate ! but generally covered by the use of RCDs......

 

[GLENNSPARK]

well yet again the forum never fails to impress with the variety of posts here.......one thing though....to me to just be able to sit a 50min. on line guess on how to get your arse about a regs book is wholly inadequate.......to just sit the 2382 then hand over 500 odd quid..and its off you go.....cant be right when colleges offer the 2330 taken over THREE YEARS...in order to gain the foundations required....then its the 2391 etc....so how can anybody be considered "competent"...if all they have to do is sit an on line "exam".....doesn`t make sense and it needs sorting does this one.....the benchmark needs to be higher........

 

[Rockingit]

My point (rather sarcastically made, I'll admit), was just that Part P DOES have specific requirements for a kitchen, whereas in the BGB it's completely overlooked. So you do actually need to know and understand the vagaries of Part P (which one could argue are only verified by then being questioned and inspected) and not just rely on 20 years of encyclopaedic knowledge of 'the regs' and working in a totally different branch of electrical work.

So therefore, I think it's a poor show just to claim that because you're a long in the tooth electrician that you can ignore Part P as irrelevant to you.

 

[trev]

To me it makes a mockery of our trade that someone who has sat an open book exam then parted with £500 could carry out this work legally yet a spark with many years experience cannot unless he pays an eye watering sum to LABC.
Was it in a Dickens book where we heard "The law is an ---"?