Where does it say in the regs...?

[Lucien Nunes]

Is it my imagination or are we seeing a ridiculous number of threads with this kind of question? Sure, some are just trolling, but many of them look like genuine queries where people want to know a the number of the reg that says whether it's OK to install 2.5T+E clipped direct to some 4x2 to feed a socket near the sideboard at No.37 Acacia Grove on a Tuesday?

What does this tell us? That the regs need to be more prescriptive like the NEC? That courses need to teach more about understanding electricity and less about looking up facts in a book? Or has it always been like this?

Puzzled of London.

 

[Darkwood]

What I hate most about the regs is where one reg relates to another reg and you are constantly flicking pages from one to the other.

Reminds me of my teenage years and mums catalogues, I was a big critique of the lingerie section :icon10:

 

[Spoon]

Reminds me of my teenage years and mums catalogues, I was a big critique of the lingerie section :icon10:

lmao Isn't that every boys teen years....

 

[AndyOz]

Teen boys have the internet now. :censored:

 

[Sisyphus]

So i am confused.

BS regs are copywrite protected to the extent that the general public can not access them?

Further, they are not to be posted on a pro forum?

Unfuzz me please....

~S~

 

[Darkwood]

So i am confused.

BS regs are copywrite protected to the extent that the general public can not access them?

Further, they are not to be posted on a pro forum?

Unfuzz me please....

~S~

Not sure what your asking, yes they are copywrite so we cannot show extracts of the printed regulations but we can discuss, type out the regulation ourselves etc...

PS Welcome to the forum

 

[Lucien Nunes]

It's not so much the people looking for regs that do exist, although I do wonder how lazy you have to be not to be able to use the index. It's the assumption that BS7671 can teach you to be an electrician and you don't need to know anything else.

 

[Fox]

And a terrible assumption and misconception to the industry it is. I took my 17th edition qualification at college as part of my apprenticeship and I learned doodle squat other than how to use an index as quickly and efficiently as possible, within a time frame.

It was all of the core modules of my apprenticeship along with working for peanuts that taught me how to be competent electrician.

 

[Gardner]

So i am confused.

BS regs are copywrite protected to the extent that the general public can not access them?

Further, they are not to be posted on a pro forum?

Unfuzz me please....

~S~

Welcome to the forum mate!

The regs are copyright protected which means we can not post pics from them directly to this forum. The general public can look at them provided they purchase a copy.


IMO they should be made free however. I know in the United States the NEC once adopted into law must be disclosed.

 

[Octopus]

Welcome to the forum mate!

The regs are copyright protected which means we can not post pics from them directly to this forum. The general public can look at them provided they purchase a copy.


IMO they should be made free however. I know in the United States the NEC once adopted into law must be disclosed.

I quite agree with you, or at the very least made available for competent people, who hold the relevant qualifications FOC or for a small nomimal sum

 

[Gardner]

I quite agree with you, or at the very least made available for competent people, who hold the relevant qualifications FOC or for a small nomimal sum

As is it does not take so many euros for someone to force metal consumer units.

 

[Sisyphus]

Thank you for the welcome and clarification(s)

I am curious just how much BS7671 differs from the IEC

~S~

 

[Barrie Patrick]

Undoubtedly some of the questions about what Reg allows or forbids certain work to be done or not can seem a little simple with an obvious answer and you may feel a fully trained, time served, experienced Electrician should know the answer already but we all have doubts sometimes and seek clarification?

I think that at times we will all have a problem finding something in the IET Regs. In the current edition there are some very clear, easy to find and understand things that actually tell you in clear English what you can and cannot do but there are also examples where it reads like total gobledegook or as someone else already said you are being referred from one Reg to another, one chapter or page to another and it can become irritating and confusing, so I for one can understand people sometimes seeking advice or opinions from others.

When I was at college we even had a lesson on the Regs and a lot of that was the lecturer interpreting the Regs and telling us what they actually meant in practice.

 

[Sisyphus]

Would not something interpretational require the letter of it examined though Barrie?

Having involved myself in such, semantics play a huge role , right down to punctuation

~S~

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Lack of maths is certainly one of the obstacles to a lot of people understanding electricity. It's the most versatile tool in the box for every branch of engineering or technical craft and I wish schools would put more emphasis on teaching maths and in particular teaching how to apply it. But what I'm worried about is the lack of any signs of individual thinking, or application of knowledge and experience, in the descent into compliance culture. Don't think it through, just read the BS to find something that complies and go with that. So it follows that people want to see a reg that tells them what to do in each individual situation, so they know they'll be compliant.

Nobody would imagine that just reading and quoting the Laws of the Game would teach you to be a great footballer, surely?

I dont think this is just in the electrical industry Lucien. As a nurse I have many written policies that I have to adhere to for pretty much any situation. My style of nursing doesn't fit well with this as I make sure I put the patient first, I think about the patient and what they require. I follow the policies if I can but they are not my priority, as a result I used to get a telling off every so often (by a poor manager) as I haven't followed the policy to the letter, however my patient is well looked after.

The newly qualified nurses will try and stick to the many, many policies (which would take forever to read as theres hundreds of them) and I believe this is to the detriment of the patient.

I'm only saying this as I expect these 'policies', 'rule books', 'regulations' are in most fields of work and they are becoming more prevalent as we become more 'safety conscious' and more accountable for our work. To a newly qualified nurse, electrician etc they may well be fearful of stepping outside of the 'rule book'. Perhaps it is mainly the newly qualified and inexperienced as I am very comfortable with my style of nursing and I have a deep understanding of the subject therefore I dont mind ignoring policies as I see what is best for the patient, however I am an inexperienced electrical installer and haven't got the same insight, therefore knowledge or confidence to step outside of the regs.

.... So basically, instead of those 3 wordy paragraphs I could have just said "Do a proper course!"

 

[telectrix]

I dont think this is just in the electrical industry Lucien. As a nurse I have many written policies that I have to adhere to for pretty much any situation. My style of nursing doesn't fit well with this as I make sure I put the patient first, I think about the patient and what they require. I follow the policies if I can but they are not my priority, as a result I used to get a telling off every so often (by a poor manager) as I haven't followed the policy to the letter, however my patient is well looked after.

The newly qualified nurses will try and stick to the many, many policies (which would take forever to read as theres hundreds of them) and I believe this is to the detriment of the patient.

I'm only saying this as I expect these 'policies', 'rule books', 'regulations' are in most fields of work and they are becoming more prevalent as we become more 'safety conscious' and more accountable for our work. To a newly qualified nurse, electrician etc they may well be fearful of stepping outside of the 'rule book'. Perhaps it is mainly the newly qualified and inexperienced as I am very comfortable with my style of nursing and I have a deep understanding of the subject therefore I dont mind ignoring policies as I see what is best for the patient, however I am an inexperienced electrical installer and haven't got the same insight, therefore knowledge or confidence to step outside of the regs.

.... So basically, instead of those 3 wordy paragraphs I could have just said "Do a proper course!"

too true red tape and bullsh1t is getting in the way of doing a proper job.