Where does it say in the regs...?

[Lucien Nunes]

Is it my imagination or are we seeing a ridiculous number of threads with this kind of question? Sure, some are just trolling, but many of them look like genuine queries where people want to know a the number of the reg that says whether it's OK to install 2.5T+E clipped direct to some 4x2 to feed a socket near the sideboard at No.37 Acacia Grove on a Tuesday?

What does this tell us? That the regs need to be more prescriptive like the NEC? That courses need to teach more about understanding electricity and less about looking up facts in a book? Or has it always been like this?

Puzzled of London.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

I'm sure that's bang on the money, but how can it be fixed? If you make the courses more in-depth it will put people off taking them, if you slim them down, material that is being taught now will get missed. The range of qualifications and competences across the industry (and yes, most other technical craft industries) seems to need re-balancing, which as we all know neither the short courses nor easy registration on approval schemes encourage. Maybe I'm being unrealistic but it would be nice to get through a day on site without someone spouting utter nonsense, supposedly backed up by a regulation, that betrays a total lack of technical understanding.

If the regs just said - 'Do a fabulous job that's really safe and durable, meets the needs of the customer and building regs and is as versatile and compatible with everything else as possible.' people would have to think a bit. Like removing traffic signals and signage from junctions, which can improve safety as people start paying attention to other road users instead of following rules. Getting into the realm of fantasy here but I believe the concept is sound...

 

[TJ Anderson]

https://www.napit.org.uk/news/article/NAPIT-create-new-city-and-guilds-accredited-course.aspx

Just thought they had brought the entry requirement up for SE to NVQ3 level and then they bring this out to dilute it again. ££ NAPIT.

 

[Sisyphus]

I'm sorry, but i just can't see why a document , who's entire existence predicates itself on public safety can not be made public in any way shape or form

To alienate the consumer and stifle potential exchanges is counterproductive

imho, the old adage 'ignorance of the law is no excuse' , just assumed a viable one

~S~

 

[Englishman]

In a way, not having the regulations in the public domain probably saves more people messing about with things that they don't understand.

 

[HandySparks]

I'm sorry, but i just can't see why a document , who's entire existence predicates itself on public safety can not be made public in any way shape or form...

It is public. However, it's not free.

How many other publications and standards relating to 'public safety' do you think should be provided free of charge, and who's going to pay for the cost of producing them?

 

[HandySparks]

I'm only saying this as I expect these 'policies', 'rule books', 'regulations' are in most fields of work and they are becoming more prevalent as we become more 'safety conscious' and more accountable for our work. To a newly qualified nurse, electrician etc they may well be fearful of stepping outside of the 'rule book'. Perhaps it is mainly the newly qualified and inexperienced as I am very comfortable with my style of nursing and I have a deep understanding of the subject therefore I dont mind ignoring policies as I see what is best for the patient, however I am an inexperienced electrical installer and haven't got the same insight, therefore knowledge or confidence to step outside of the regs.

Nice one HHD.

The longer I work as a self-employed electrician, the more confident I become to make a judgement regarding what's acceptably safe, rather than blindly following the published guidance or manufacturer's instructions (some of which are just downright wrong!).

 

[Blademan_98]

I'm sorry, but i just can't see why a document , who's entire existence predicates itself on public safety can not be made public in any way shape or form

To alienate the consumer and stifle potential exchanges is counterproductive

imho, the old adage 'ignorance of the law is no excuse' , just assumed a viable one

~S~

If you want a copy of the regs just go to Amazon and buy them. They are available to anyone with £70 to spare.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Better still, buy them from the IET website. Some copies offered by other online sellers have been found to be fakes with errors in.

 

[happysteve]

Better still, buy them from the IET website. Some copies offered by other online sellers have been found to be fakes with errors in.

... whereas the ones from the IET shop (where I get mine) are genuine with errors in.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I'm sure that's bang on the money, but how can it be fixed? If you make the courses more in-depth it will put people off taking them, if you slim them down, material that is being taught now will get missed. The range of qualifications and competences across the industry (and yes, most other technical craft industries) seems to need re-balancing, which as we all know neither the short courses nor easy registration on approval schemes encourage. Maybe I'm being unrealistic but it would be nice to get through a day on site without someone spouting utter nonsense, supposedly backed up by a regulation, that betrays a total lack of technical understanding.

If the regs just said - 'Do a fabulous job that's really safe and durable, meets the needs of the customer and building regs and is as versatile and compatible with everything else as possible.' people would have to think a bit. Like removing traffic signals and signage from junctions, which can improve safety as people start paying attention to other road users instead of following rules. Getting into the realm of fantasy here but I believe the concept is sound...

I'm always going on and on (although less so these days as they never do it) to my manager and my managers manager to have team building exercises, to look at successful businesses and use some of the things they find. They never do it, so the team stays 'moany' and productivity (for want of a better word) is low as we do enough to make sure we stick to the 'regs', 'policies' etc so as to avoid punishment.

I've decided that this is just how things are and it is down to the individual to make things better for themselves or there clients/patients. You could just make a choice to understand electrics! Perhaps one way is to read some of your threads Lucien. You clearly have a deep understanding of electrics compared to most, that sometimes pushes me to learn more...mainly through a sense of wanting to better myself and to not offer any less of a standard compared to a qualified electrician.

I suppose we could then say what drives people to better themselves or gain greater fulfillment... I'll stop there! :crazy:

 

[Adam W]

It tends to be "where does it say you can't?" A question often asked by people who expect the regs book to read like a DIY manual, displaying a lack of understanding of the document. The 17th edition multiple guess test might be a doddle, it might demonstrate nothing more than the holder of the qualification can look things up in a book, but at the very least it should provide an insight into the way the book is written, however we get questions such as:

"Where in the regs does it state, in as many words, in black and white, that you can't feed the lights in flex plugged into a socket and clipped direct onto the skirting board?"
"Well it doesn't - the regs don't read that way. It does however state circuits should be suitably segregated, so with this in mind you shouldn't do that."
"But it doesn't actually say you can't do it?"
"Not in as many words, but..."
"Well if the regs don't expressly forbid it then I'm going to crack on and do it."
"Why would you do that anyway? That would look like a cowboy has done it."
"What? How dare you. I thought this forum was here to continue where the training centre left off blowing smoke up my bottom. You're an elitist snob."
"Do what you like."

 

[davesparks]

I'm sorry, but i just can't see why a document , who's entire existence predicates itself on public safety can not be made public in any way shape or form

Why don't you try getting your facts straight before you go spouting off this nonsense?
BS7671, along with every BS, may be viewed by anyone at no cost at any public library.
That's hardly 'not made public in any way, shape or form' is it?

 

[Sisyphus]

Why don't you try getting your facts straight before you go spouting off this nonsense?
BS7671, along with every BS, may be viewed by anyone at no cost at any public library.
That's hardly 'not made public in any way, shape or form' is it?

I have a copy Dave

But i won't be posting any of it here , which obviously makes questioning it harder

agreed?

~S~

 

[Barrie Patrick]

I think it would and indeed does and perhaps this is why people seek advice and/or clarification from their peers.

 

[Sisyphus]

The forward states that no part of this publication may be reproduced or utilized in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical, including
photocopying and microfilm, without permission in writing from
the publisher.

As this is the target document within a pro-electrical forum , one would assume permission would be granted if asked for.

If a monetary concern is issue, pass hat , a worthy aspiration


jhmo


~S~