Which qualification for domestic inspection and testing?

[DNS1]

Sorry for this basic question guys, but I'm having a hard time getting to grips with which C&G is required to qualify me for domestic inspection and testing of old installations. 2392? 2391?

A friend of mine is having trouble with nuisance RCD tripping in her 1900s terrace, so I said I'd do a sort of mock inspection, just for practice with the new MFT. They know I'm not yet qualified so can't do repair work. Just got me wondering which C&G I need to do this properly in future, the college I'm using offers 2392 before going on to the 2391 so I wondered what the difference is.

Cheers

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I done them both and to be honest I wish I had gone straight for the 2391.



Did you locate the RCD fault??

same here tony.....in hindsight maybe i should have gone straight for the 2391..but whats done is done......

 

[GLENNSPARK]

the thing is n all....is you DONT need to be a holder of the C&G 2391 to carry out EICRs.....and you certainly dont need to be on a scheme (regardless of what the scheme providers would have you believe).....

 

[tuckerkop81]

So for me to go into a property and sign off the electrical installation, i WOULDNT need the 2394 or 2395???? This is confusing me.... ( iknow, not hard!! )

 

[GLENNSPARK]

its about proving competency in this game mate......dont get me wrong....if it all went arse up and you found yourself in court over something overlooked on an EICR that consequently fired...then a good way of proving competency is to hold relevent quals/certs....such as the 2391.....and i think thats been mentioned already......but you dont need to be a scheme member to carry out periodics.....any irregularities/non conformances found (1s and 2s)......you may need to be a scheme member to rectify those faults....but there again..they may not be classes as notifyable as well...lol...even if they were notifyable....you may just opt to notify the LABC yourself who may want to see that you hold relevent certs.....such as the 2391.....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

but dont forget as well that an EICR is only good until you hand over the signed EICR form.....that is to say that the installation was good for continued service as you saw it at the time the periodic was carried out......

 

[GLENNSPARK]

to carry out periodics/EICRs....you need to be competent......you need to be able to distinguish whats a (1)...requires urgent attention......whats a (2)...requires improvement.....whats a (3)...requires further investigation......and what isn`t coded under the 1st ammendment......

 

[GLENNSPARK]

for instance......a scenareo here for you......
you go into a property...the C/U is a 6 way BS3036 type now under the 17th that would be a (4)...and the final circuits would also be a (4).....then you get to the bathroom (special location) to discover theres no supplementary bonding in place....so the final circuit feeding that bathroom suddenly becomes a (2)...as it doesn`t enjoy additional protection by means of RCD...BS3036 remember......and the absence of supplementary bonding ..you would also give a (2).....bounces of each other a bit....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

but put an RCD FCU in before the circuit feeding the bathroom reaches that special location (outside the bathroom ...in a cupboard?)....then you have solved the issue of no RCD to a special location...and the absence of supplementary bonding within that special location.....

 

[D80]

You don't need any qualifications to do domestic inspection and testing (DNS1 I assume you're referring to EICR's?) Or any install for that matter.

You need to be competent to do them (2391 is one way of going towards proving this) and perhaps have PI Insurance. In the most part Domestic Installations are quite simple, a small number of accessories and circuits to analyse. The ESC best Practice Guide would be of some assistance as well. Doing a "mock" EICR, could be a very good experience, especially on an old install. It would be getting a thorough and proper report after you do your to compare and learn from - would probably find in a fair few cases your mock is the more thorough report!

The only qualification I'd consider would be the 2391. If you need to do the 2392 first to build up to it then so be it, but get the 2391.

 

[D80]

for instance......a scenareo here for you......
you go into a property...the C/U is a 6 way BS3036 type now under the 17th that would be a (4)...and the final circuits would also be a (4).....then you get to the bathroom (special location) to discover theres no supplementary bonding in place....so the final circuit feeding that bathroom suddenly becomes a (2)...as it doesn`t enjoy additional protection by means of RCD...BS3036 remember......and the absence of supplementary bonding ..you would also give a (2).....bounces of each other a bit....

Nothing wrong with the BS3036 type at all. And there is no longer a 4, just a C1-C2-C3.

 

[firemanowl]

Are you on an electrical installation course at college? Half of the 3rd year of the 2330 course is testing and fault finding which is probably better than the 2392. If you are doing the 2330 course save your money, complete 2330 then do 2391 or whatever the new courses are.

 

[DNS1]

Thanks again for the advice chaps.

I've not started my mock EICR on my friends place yet, but planning on doing it as "by the book" as I possibly can. Being an ancient install, I'm sure it's going to need some work so undoubtably they'll end up getting a proper sparks in to do another report and remedial work (probably a rewire). Comparing my report with there's is a great idea.

What are the legalities of me doing the inspection and testing? (Bearing in mind that it's not for money and my friend is well aware that I'm not yet qualified and it's just a practice run so the report isn't real) The chances are any remedial work would be notifiable, but can a (currently!) untrained guy take off the DB cover and do the tests?

Firemanowl, I'm currently working in a completely different industry so getting the 2382 in my time off and then planning to add to it when I can get myself registered with a scheme and doing basic domestic work. Definitely want to do the 2391, but been unsure of the 2392. I could well end up doing the 2330 if circumstances allow so if that's the case I reckon bypassing the 2392 is realistic.

Cheers

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Nothing wrong with the BS3036 type at all. And there is no longer a 4, just a C1-C2-C3.

#21...

 

[GLENNSPARK]

when did i mention about anything being wrong with semi enclosed fuses to BS 3036 D80? As long as the C/U and fuse carriers are good for continued service....and the fuse itself meets .4 second disconnection times (upto 30A) and 5 seconds for over 30A and fuses feeding sub boards......it isn`t the fuse i was refering to on the code....it was the absence of supplementary bonding and the absence of additional protection by means of RCD for the final circuit entering the bathroom (special location)....

 

[firemanowl]

can a (currently!) untrained guy take off the DB cover and do the tests?

As long as you know what you are doing when it comes to testing. Not sure what experience you have of testing but there is a set sequence to follow and not something you can have a guess at. You don't want to be doing an Insulation Resistance Test and damage some sensitive equipment and have to replace it or worse electrocute yourself because you haven't carried out safe isolation correctly. There is no law to prevent you from carrying out testing but what the piece of paper(i.e 2391etc) does is prove to a court of law that you are able to Inspect and Test should something go wrong.

Have you got any electrical experience? Learning how to carryout the practical tests isn't much use if you don't understand what the readings say. Carrying out the tests is only half the battle, interpreting the results is where experince comes into its own. Any courses will expect you to have an understanding of the basics of circuit design, why you would expect certain readings etc which then allow you to advise on the results.