Who is doing all the installs?

[provr6]

I don't agree that the price of solar has halved, especially if you are talking less than 4kw. It has reduced significantly but not by half, can you get £4kw installed for £5k inclusive of scaffolding with a decent inverter and mid range panels?

Its all very well saying that the ROI is higher than anything in a bank, yes it is, but the bank is a 100% sure thing whereas during the 25 years things may go wrong with the panels/inverters etc and thereby reduce the ROI.

Hopefully that won't happy to the majority but it damn sure will happen to some.

Also, I think there is a large element of customers who were considering solar are angry they have missed out on the higher tarrif and think **** the Gov't, I won't bother now.

I price a lot of new housing and more and more the employers are stating they do not want PV installed as a renewable technolgy.

 

[SRE]

Every new property should be built with integrated renewables as standard - it shouldn't be a choice. Although the new build market is tiny it would help to raise aspirations and normalise the installation of renewables in older properties.

As far as banks are concerned - no-one expected money in Iceland to disappear or Lehmans to go bust, so nothing is certain.

 

[SolarCity]

Every new property should be built with integrated renewables as standard - it shouldn't be a choice.

Strongly agree. And not just a token 2kWp either. Homes should be built with south facing roofs, unshaded by neighbours nor chimneys, and covered with integrated panels or tiles.

 

[Earthstore]

As I understand, new builds have to have some renewable technologies installed, so the builders just chose the cheapest so they conform. if they can install a solar thermal for say $2K and it means the right boxes have been ticked, why would they pay say £5K for a PV system?
I have seen a small new estate with a few panels fitted to every house, roofs pointing in all directions, systems shaded, but I guess they have ticked the boxes.

 

[SolarRoofSols]

I was speaking to a PV installer in our wholesalers earlier today who claimed that as much as 75% of all the installs carried out in April were done by rent-a-roof firms. I asked him how he knew this and he told me that he had been told by someone at MCS. I don't know how true this is but if it is true then we have got major problems.

I can imagine it is true, I have received emails from at least 4 different companies looking for installers for a rent a roof company, toying with working with 2 of them because we need to get some work in and paying customers are non existent at the moment.

With 1 of the funds, there are 2 draw backs, we need to find customers without mortgages and we need to get the EPC done. The installation fee isn't too bad but throw EPC into the mix and for the few non mortgage homeowners wanting free solar, half of them may not even qualify - but we need to fork out on the EPC to find out.

Solar can work at 21p so why aren't the public going for it?

Don't forget, as well as all of the deary headlines about solar costing your neighbor money through their bills and the 'missed the boat' mentality, we are this week being talked back into recession by the good ole G'vmt and media!

 

[SRE]

We need a plan to change the "missed the boat" mentality, that's the biggest barrier at the minute. How many people are just not ringing because they think it's too late.

Mind you or D challenge is almost as big, but you can't get to the conversation about D rating if they aren't riniging.

 

[finchy]

Start saying Epc to customers they go what ... Best leave that untill they have had a cup of tea and your in the door !

 

[SRE]

Very true but if I'm travelling an hour and a half on country roads I need to know there's a good chance we'll be able to get a D rating. I haven't quite perfected the knck of explaining it simply without the customer "glazing" over. No doubt I'll overcome that with the rush of customers expected any minute now .....

 

[mogga]

4kw for £7800 "why should I buy from you when Direct flooring are quoting £5999 for a 4 kw?" I think its 5999 or it might be 4999 cant make out that mincer claries accent
Theres your problem Firms that can afford to pile them high n sell them cheap best you can hope for is to subby to them

 

[sambotc]

Don't quite agree with that personally Mogga, otherwise everybody would be driving around in Kia's and eating tesco valvue noodles day in day out. I suppose you have to sell your product. Cheaper is always better and many people know that.

What people perceive as value isn't always the cheapest, if you can offer a better service for a little bit more.

No doubt these companies use contractors who get paid a days wage and generally don't really care how it goes in as it has no adverse effect on them. Corners are cut. Also it must be the cheapest gear they can possibly source.

Not tarring all contractors with the same brush but I've been a sub contractor for a big rent a roof company and a lot of the lads I worked with were like that, not me may add!

I once had to go back to a job another subby did, the top row of panels were about 60mm lower than the bottom row with a huge dip in the middle. It looked like an elephant had fallen out of the sky and landed on the array!
I've seen tiles cracked in half horizontally and siliconed back together (not very well either) and even mid clamps that haven't been tightened up and causing the panels to squeek in the wind!

So, if it were me, I'd think very hard before choosing the cheapest option when something is going to be on your roof for 25 years.

 

[moggy1968]

I doubt they pay their subbies too well at those prices.
Pay peanuts get monkeys!

 

[SRE]

There will always be a market for the more specialist installers - at the minute solar is such a small market that the question is whether the quality installers can survive long enough for the market to level out. Once they go there's no hope really, then we end up with poorly installed systems causing problems and the whole industry's reputation suffers.

 

[sambotc]

I agree, although any small company who are still specialising solely in solar P.V might want to consider other avenues. To many companies on board to consider it a niche, it's like opening up a petrol station who specialise in diesel only!

 

[SibertSolar]

Interesting thread, thanks. My tuppence on the whole price erosion process/issue - end-customers will always want to pay as little as possible, for the greatest return as possible. However, products are priced differently for many different reasons and "value for money" needs to be the key factor when trying to sell to, or educate, the end-user. People don't mind paying a perceived premium over other lower-cost products if they can see the benefit in real terms - those benefits shouldn't simply be focused on ROI. Other important factors should include solid pre/post-sales/installation support, warranty, reliability, manufacturing origin, performance benefits etc etc. There are normally good reasons why one product may be more expensive in ££ terms than another - it's important to understand those reasons and help the end-user to understand them too, this in turn helps them justify their own decision to spend that little extra on getting a better value-for-money solution.

 

[firemanowl]

Times are tough out there, coming up with 6/7/8 grand is beyond a lot of people at the moment. Gone are the days of whacking it on the mortgage/credit card and paying it off at a later date. I think once things start picking up more people may look at renewables but until then things are going to be tough.

I think a lot of people who are going for the rent a roof schemes are going to be for a shock when they try and sell their houses. If you read the fine print who is going to buy their house with all the restriction the schemes put on. Rent a roofs could be the next PPI and once house owners start saying you never told us that and they complain about mis selling. I could be way off the mark but rent a roofs seem like a runaway train at the minute.