Why aren't ring circuits banned?

[chronyx]

Doing a lot of EICRs in London at the moment and I'd say every other C.U. has a ring circuit with no continuity on one of the conductors.

Seeing as the IET see fit to tinker around the edges constantly with the regs, I struggle to understand why these potentially extremely dangerous circuits are still permitted. Yet bonding and earth conductors have almost doubled in size because, well, they said so.

It's not 1949 anymore. Ban the damn things.

 

[Andy78]

How about campaigning for greater awareness of the importance of householders regularly having their installations tested rather than banning circuits that the lowest skilled in our trade may have problems with installing and testing ? Do you really want to advocate the continued dumbing down ?

 

[davesparks]

Doing a lot of EICRs in London at the moment and I'd say every other C.U. has a ring circuit with no continuity on one of the conductors.

Seeing as the IET see fit to tinker around the edges constantly with the regs, I struggle to understand why these potentially extremely dangerous circuits are still permitted. Yet bonding and earth conductors have almost doubled in size because, well, they said so.

It's not 1949 anymore. Ban the damn things.

Every circuit has the potential to be extremely dangerous if it is not installed and tested properly, why would you single out ring circuits for this?

How old are the circuits you are finding these issues with? Are they reasonably modern circuits which have been fully tested at the time of installation or are they older circuits which may not have been tested at install or have been fiddled with over time?

 

[bigspark17]

I love rings.. yes testing them compared to radials on an eicr is a pain but for me the pros far outweigh he cons! Do you r1/rn & r1/r2 @ every socket with cables crossed at db out of interest?

 

[kingeri]

A 2 second 'Martindale' test would have identified that. (Edit: As opposed to the 'end-to-end' tests that mean dismantling C.U. and circuit)

I did identify it, the point is that it had probably been like that for years.

 

[davesparks]

Crap, we're the only country that uses them.

I wouldn't know about that, but I do know that my commercial customers have ring circuits installed for the output of static inverters and central battery systems to reduce voltage drop and give redundancy, especially on lower voltage DC circuits.
Car park lighting or large area lighting also utilises ring circuits to limit volt drop and cable size.
Distribution circuits, both LV and HV, utilise various forms of ring circuits, mostly for redundancy.

You would sure as hell see a lot more power cuts if a universal ban on ring circuits was applied across the country

 

[kingeri]

And 4mm radials are far more limited, fart near the cable and the CCC drops below 32A.

 

[chronyx]

Every circuit has the potential to be extremely dangerous if it is not installed and tested properly, why would you single out ring circuits for this?

How old are the circuits you are finding these issues with? Are they reasonably modern circuits which have been fully tested at the time of installation or are they older circuits which may not have been tested at install or have been fiddled with over time?

All sorts, new colours through to late 1970's stuff.

Yes they will have been modified poorly but that's my point, at least an overloaded radial (As long as the MCB isn't over-rated) will just trip rather than work fine up until the point the smoke starts.

 

[chronyx]

And 4mm radials are far more limited, fart near the cable and the CCC drops below 32A.

Is there a CCC chart for 2x2.5mm T&E?

Or do you mean the 100 square metre area allowed of a ring circuit?

 

[Andy78]

All sorts, new colours through to late 1970's stuff.

Yes they will have been modified poorly but that's my point, at least an overloaded radial (As long as the MCB isn't over-rated) will just trip rather than work fine up until the point the smoke starts.

How many ring circuits have you encountered with broken continuity that have been overloaded to the point where the smoke starts ?

 

[kingeri]

Is there a CCC chart for 2x2.5mm T&E?

Or do you mean the 100 square metre area allowed of a ring circuit?

I mean unless clipped direct, you can't run it on a 32A mcb.

 

[chronyx]

How many ring circuits have you encountered with broken continuity that have been overloaded to the point where the smoke starts ?

One today that's why I posted.

I guess I'm just amazed that something that has the potential to cause serious damage is just fine, while we're now told to C3 plastic consumer units and make sure there's RCD protection for near enough everything.

Oh well, clearly in a minority of 1.

 

[chronyx]

I mean unless clipped direct, you can't run it on a 32A mcb.

Ah gotcha

 

[kingeri]

That's not to say that I never use 32A 4mm radials, cos I do. I just think every circuit has it's place and that it comes down to proper design.

 

[Risteard]

I like them.

Me too. I fully support and endorse the ring final circuit when used appropriately and correctly.

Rubbish DIY work or incompetent Electricians not verifying circuit integrity is not the fault of the ring final circuit.

 

[Risteard]

Isn't that the fault of the people who tinker with the circuits without knowing what they are doing. Maybe they should ban them instead.

Precisely.

Long live the ring final circuit.