Why didn't I do this earlier!!

[mandinga1975]

Hello all

Just like to say 'why didn't I do this earlier' - get into the electrician's trade that is ...

As some of you may know I am an 'older' student after spending many years sat behind a desk.

I have been doing home study for my C&G 2330 Level 2 and although I have nearly completed all the theory for this certificate (which I have really enjoyed) - I was yet to do any practical work.

Well that has changed this week and after 2 days I have been able to complete both a radial and ring circuit (albiet basic ones). I was apprehensive when I was driving to the training centre but it's amazing how useful good study is - and I have really enjoyed doing it!

I have even been able to help other students which has given me an even bigger confidence boost especially as I wondered whether I was cut out for it when my head was mashed by study.

Anyway thought I'd share this, I know there is along way to go yet but if these first two practical days are anything to go by I can't wait.

Mandinga

 

[cjddj]

Yep, did an apprenticeship, Steelworks electrician, house bashing at weekends, then lots of electronics.

No 5 day wonder here.

I could wire houses to 7671 before I did this course, now I can do it with a bit of paper (and self certifying)

On a parallel note;-

A plumber friend of mine asked me to help his handyman through 'His Electrics' so he can self certify boiler wiring.
bloody terrifying, cant read a diagram, can't understand Ohm's law even when all the values are written down, and could not wire a double socket to a good standard after 6 attempts over the period of one hour...

He has just passed his exams to do his own minor works associated with plumbing!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[andyd55]

Have to say I agree with you there mandinga1975, I am currently in a engineering job, after completing an engineering apprenticeship however I want to become a spark, am I right in saying that boatnik1 wants me to go complete another 5 year apprenticeship to be qualified as an electrician??

 

[scotsparky]

Have to say I agree with you there mandinga1975, I am currently in a engineering job, after completing an engineering apprenticeship however I want to become a spark, am I right in saying that boatnik1 wants me to go complete another 5 year apprenticeship to be qualified as an electrician??

The apprenticeship isnt just about passing exams. Enybody can learn the layout and how to find things in 7671 or how to put in circuits on a college cubicle. The real beauty of an apprentice ship is you get to learn how to adapt your knowlage and think latteraly when fault finding, Or knowing what,where and when things are possible. Its the difference between a "spark" and a tradesman. After 4/5 year appenticeship you can justify your actions and give a logical reason for them not the old "cos thats what i was taught. I for one feel its the duty of a tradesmen to pass down there knowlege to Apprentices as there is an aufull lot then isnt written in books or can be taught in a classroom. I dont care if i stand on peoples toes because of that and i personnaly will not work with someone getting the same wages as me after a 6 week course.

 

[boatnik1]

mandinga1975 Guess your as entitled to your views as I am.
Yep. time served as distinct to served time (double meaning)
Study on day release, one day a week during early apprenticeship for study and exams.
At that time there was less legislation and some was surely required, but it has come to the point where paper has started to be more use than practice. This is where we have the situation were Kitchen fitters/plumbers/gasfitters and god knows who else can play at being sparks because they've got a piece of paper.

andy55 If it is accepted that it takes five years to complete an apprenticeship for a school leaver, I can think of no good reason why a later start shouldn't serve an equal apprenticeship with perhaps a slight reduction for associated skills which might already be known, ie possibly trunking/tray or pipework. Equality and all that stuff.
If less than five years is acceptable then perhaps we need to consider that five years is too long for everybody and that apprentices are exploited cheap labour. (I have some sympathy with this.)

 

[Spudnik]

Whilst everyone is entitled to there opinions, could we please refrain from the name calling.

 

[andyd55]

boatnik1: Just noticed your from Belfast may I ask where you done your apprenticeship, and whats the work situation like for a spark in N. I at minute? I really want to get into the trade but just not sure if a apprenticeship is best route for me as I am a qualified electrical engineer working on 115v, 440v and various other systems, I currently do alot of fault finding on my gear and just dont see the point in going back down the route of being an apprentice and getting a crap wage and all the crap jobs when alot of the knowledge is in there?

 

[pfa]

hello to all at electriciansforums.net have been reading peoples posts now for about six weeks and thought it was very helpfull i am from the uk but moved over to ireland about five years ago and decided to do a electrical apprentership as have been in and out of this type of work for a long time and wanted to get the paper work to prove to myself that i should of done it a long time ago instead of putting it off

 

[boatnik1]

boatnik1: Just noticed your from Belfast may I ask where you done your apprenticeship, and whats the work situation like for a spark in N. I at minute? I really want to get into the trade but just not sure if a apprenticeship is best route for me as I am a qualified electrical engineer working on 115v, 440v and various other systems, I currently do alot of fault finding on my gear and just dont see the point in going back down the route of being an apprentice and getting a crap wage and all the crap jobs when alot of the knowledge is in there?

Hi Andyd55. Apprenticeship in H.J. Scott (Now Defunct) back in '61 to '66 so a long time back. Winding and repairing Transformers up to sub station size and Motors and Gen sets from fractional to 500HP. Then on to outside contracts, mostly commercial and some house bashing.
Glad to say I'm retired now, my last 18 years as a factory maintenance spark and engineer along with H&S duties. Been out of the game for 10 years now so not too sure how things are, but work seems to be falling off with the decline in house moves and newbuilds and factory closures. Now work is a hobby playing around with generators and selling off surplus gear.

 

[irishsailor]

Well done mate and good luck

 

[ezzzekiel]

my advise is:
although 2330 is good starting point for electrical theory a lot of it is of no use and the qualification on its own (although it is certainly the best route) has no real impact.
follow it up with 2382 and 2391, these 2 quals alone will get you into the industry, even just as a mate/labourer then with 12 months on job doin the donkey work you will be qualified and experienced. In the meantime use your garage to build circuits and test boards etc, although not ideal it will give you a good idea of wiring different circuits up....
Best of luck and if your stuck ask, a good electrician does not know everything but he knows when to check...

just as an afterthought, I am now leaving the industry, meter installation is gonna be as exiting as it gets for me from now on, but good bye crawling around lofts and under floors etc ...

 

[Sparky-Tom]

I totally agree with Boatnik1! These 6 week courses are undermining the tried and tested method of apprenticeships, if these 6 week courses were worth the paper they were wrote on, then they would have taken over as a method of training new electrical professionals, in which case; full 4 or 5 year apprenticeships would now be defunct!

boatnik1: Just noticed your from Belfast may I ask where you done your apprenticeship, and whats the work situation like for a spark in N. I at minute? I really want to get into the trade but just not sure if a apprenticeship is best route for me as I am a qualified electrical engineer working on 115v, 440v and various other systems, I currently do alot of fault finding on my gear and just dont see the point in going back down the route of being an apprentice and getting a crap wage and all the crap jobs when alot of the knowledge is in there?

andyd55: I dont think boatnik1 is aiming his previous posts at people like you, i assume hes aiming it towards people who arnt in the trade and who want to re-"train". im assuming you work in industry? and you have a BTEC ONC maybe even HNC/HND or maybe even a degree? this shows that you have put in the time and effort to learn the principles and techniques of working with electrical/electronic systems and have not been on a mickey mouse "skills" course

rant over

 

[ezzzekiel]

and i agree with wot he said,
a lot of people already have knowledge and experience so a short course can help them get a qualification and entry into the trade prob is there a far too many guys with no knowledge at all doing these short courses and then going around calling themselves electricians with no idea what they are doing.
I know a guy who did a course joined a part p scheme is now working as an electrician and does not know a ohm from his ahole.....

 

[andyd55]

Been out of the game for 10 years now so not too sure how things are, but work seems to be falling off with the decline in house moves and newbuilds and factory closures.

This is what I feared, hopefully will pick up again soonish!!

Sparky-Tom: I am in the industry yes, I have a fd degree think its equivalent to the old HND. Is the best route for someone like myself then to do one of these courses or is it more acceptable to do go through and try to do an apprenticeship (with my age against me? are they just for school leavers?) but fast tracking what work I have covered??

I know a guy who did a course joined a part p scheme is now working as an electrician and does not know a ohm from his ahole.....

 

[Sparky-Tom]

Sparky-Tom: I am in the industry yes, I have a fd degree think its equivalent to the old HND. Is the best route for someone like myself then to do one of these courses or is it more acceptable to do go through and try to do an apprenticeship (with my age against me? are they just for school leavers?) but fast tracking what work I have covered??

By my reconing, you shouldnt have to do one of these micky mouse 6 week courses or have to serve a full apprenticeship. Did you serve an apprenticeship or did you do it all in college/uni? Either way, you have already proven you are capable and that you are willing to put in the time, possibly 4 to 7 years depending on whether you did a HNC first?

Dont you feel that these 6 week "training" courses are undermining your hard work and effort over all them years?

 

[boatnik1]

SPARKY-TOM

andyd55: I dont think boatnik1 is aiming his previous posts at people like you, i assume hes aiming it towards people who arnt in the trade and who want to re-"train". im assuming you work in industry? and you have a BTEC ONC maybe even HNC/HND or maybe even a degree? this shows that you have put in the time and effort to learn the principles and techniques of working with electrical/electronic systems and have not been on a mickey mouse "skills" course

Correct on that. I just have the horrors when theory people enter the game. I had the misfortune to be stuck with two graduates sent over to me from HQ (ASW. S. Wales) for practical experience.
The female one was terrified of electricity and refused point blank to go near an open Dist. Board and the male who wouldnt use hand tools in case he hurt himself. Both of them refused to use a ladder as they felt no one should be working from a ladder and that proper scaffold should be used. Neither of them would assemble scaffold as that was some one else's job. They quoted H&S about everything and invented it where it didn't exist. It wasn't part of their job to chase brickwork or to clip cables, that was a labourers job.
Practical people and theory people do not mix.