Why do we do it the way we do in the UK?

[Electrics]

Was just watching a video of an RCBO install and found it weird that the breakers are double pole yet still have to have a fly lead.

Why don't we do it like this:

Ignore the gibberish coming out of his mouth and take a look at the unit. L+N coming from the supply, feeding the bottom of the first RCD. All the RCD's are linked together by the linking bars running down the left, giving them all L+N feed. The feed then goes through the RCD out the top, into the bus bar that's linked across the tops of all the MCB's. The L+N of each circuit comes out the bottom. This does away with the need for a neutral bar (there is one but they are used when there is no linking bar employed and you have to run an N to each RCD), several main neutral cables and the need to fill the unit with loads of extra cabling, not to mention cost saving on the materials.

Why, even with dual pole RCBO's, do we still make them use fly leads when we could simply link them all to N via the main RCD in? Makes no sense to me.

Having said that we're still the only country i know of that uses rings.

Anyone think we'll eventually catch up and stop doing things in such weird ways? Although i guess one drawback of the way they do it in Europe is that their multi tier units are standard for almost any regular sized home and they are anywhere from £3-700.

 

[Mikegh]

Yes. There will be an "on/off" control switch outside the door.

I, ve not heard that particular take on it myself. I do know that this method of installation is becoming increasingly more common. I also think that most 40/50 amp isolators are not adequate for 10mm.

Yes someone approved this method as the isolators were obviously giving trouble but they were mistaken

Sure look if it gets passed

 

[Mikegh]

Definitely true about the isolators , they're not fit for purpose in a lot of cases

I definitely found the crabtree to be the best of what I've tried

 

[123]

Showur.

Sure in mid Ulster they pronounce it Shour. As in you're a shour of shyte

???

PS Not much better in these parts?

 

[Mikegh]

The UK single row boards are just that little bit easier than the 2 row boards to do a neat install

You'd wonder then about the benefit of doing anymore then letting the wires just drop vertically to the mcbs and bars at the bottom

Looks better when they're all bunched and concealed but is there much
real benefit on a 2 row board

 

[LastManOnline]

The UK single row boards are just that little bit easier than the 2 row boards to do a neat install

You'd wonder then about the benefit of doing anymore then letting the wires just drop vertically to the mcbs and bars at the bottom

Looks better when they're all bunched and concealed but is there much
real benefit on a 2 row board

I, m OK with either. Key thing is having sufficient space. I was initially going to install a 3 row in order to Co form with new height regs (215 cm to top of highest mcb), but it looks monstrous. I tried a few different formations and the one on the picture with the 3 compartment trunking is what I, m happiest with.
The upside to the new arrangement is no more earth and neutral bars clung to ceilings. You can struggle to get a screwdriver horizo tally in to some busbar. I also like to use the 2 spare compartments in the trunking as, possible junction boxes. Strictly speaking you should, nt join any cables in the DB(though I must confess I sometimes do)

 

[Mikegh]

I, m OK with either. Key thing is having sufficient space. I was initially going to install a 3 row in order to Co form with new height regs (215 cm to top of highest mcb), but it looks monstrous. I tried a few different formations and the one on the picture with the 3 compartment trunking is what I, m happiest with.
The upside to the new arrangement is no more earth and neutral bars clung to ceilings. You can struggle to get a screwdriver horizo tally in to some busbar. I also like to use the 2 spare compartments in the trunking as, possible junction boxes. Strictly speaking you should, nt join any cables in the DB(though I must confess I sometimes do)

Its all good I reckon apart from the single pole rcbos on the Hager board

A step backwards I reckon

 

[DPG]

I, m OK with either. Key thing is having sufficient space. I was initially going to install a 3 row in order to Co form with new height regs (215 cm to top of highest mcb), but it looks monstrous. I tried a few different formations and the one on the picture with the 3 compartment trunking is what I, m happiest with.
The upside to the new arrangement is no more earth and neutral bars clung to ceilings. You can struggle to get a screwdriver horizo tally in to some busbar. I also like to use the 2 spare compartments in the trunking as, possible junction boxes. Strictly speaking you should, nt join any cables in the DB(though I must confess I sometimes do)

Do your regs specifically prohibit any joints in a consumer unit then?

 

[Dave OCD]

If cables will physically make it into the CU during a renewal I think it's better to extend within the CU than introduce an additional enclosure.

 

[Mikegh]

I, m OK with either. Key thing is having sufficient space. I was initially going to install a 3 row in order to Co form with new height regs (215 cm to top of highest mcb), but it looks monstrous. I tried a few different formations and the one on the picture with the 3 compartment trunking is what I, m happiest with.
The upside to the new arrangement is no more earth and neutral bars clung to ceilings. You can struggle to get a screwdriver horizo tally in to some busbar. I also like to use the 2 spare compartments in the trunking as, possible junction boxes. Strictly speaking you should, nt join any cables in the DB(though I must confess I sometimes do)

One other change too now I remember , we.were on 4% installation volt drop

We've changed to the UK system of 3 and 5v for lighting and sockets if I'm not mistaken

 

[Mikegh]

If cables will physically make it into the CU during a renewal I think it's better to extend within the CU than introduce an additional enclosure.

I don't remember ever hearing of this unless it's new

The rule was always there for no joints inside trunking, that would be basic good practice anyway

I'm sure they have the exact same in the uk

Inaccessible joints then have to be maintenance free , I'm sure they have the same in bs7671

Never heard anything bout DBs unless its new

 

[LastManOnline]

Do your regs specifically prohibit any joints in a consumer unit then?

Will come back to you on that. Was pulled on it by my inspector. He, s required to state the rules breach when does that

 

[Mikegh]

Maybe he wanted it on the din rail if it wasn't there ?

 

[Dave OCD]

I don't remember ever hearing of this unless it's new

The rule was always there for no joints inside trunking, that would be basic good practice anyway

I'm sure they have the exact same in the uk

Inaccessible joints then have to be maintenance free , I'm sure they have the same in bs7671

Never heard anything bout DBs unless its new

What I mean is - when an old fusebox is replaced with a modern Consumer Unit it's common to find that several of the existing conductors will be too short to reach their new terminals comfortably. So I can't see any issue at all with extending these conductors within the new CU enclosure, anything else would just be an unnecessary waste of time and materials ?

 

[pc1966]

One other change too now I remember , we.were on 4% installation volt drop

We've changed to the UK system of 3 and 5v for lighting and sockets if I'm not mistaken

Realistically 5% for both makes sense now that filament lamps are a thing of the past.

 

[LastManOnline]

Do your regs specifically prohibit any joints in a consumer unit then?

No they don, t. I checked the regs and all the relevant guidance notes and found nothing to back up my (incorrect) understanding that it was prohibited. So I waited for my most recent inspection last week (same guy who instructed me not to do it originally) and asked about the reasons for not using connectors in the CU. Was told that that "was no longer required". Oh well.... Am still going to use my 3 compartment trunking to drop from the ceiling to the DB though. Enjoy the look of it