Why does the UK use rings for sockets?

[Risteard]

Yes - within 2m and readily accessible.

And forgot to say it's in the Wiring Rules.

 

[nicebutdim]

Yes. Traditionally that's the way we all did it. Many people have concerns about them been under the sink but it actually is not a problem in my view. Have never experienced a problem with it. Those who complain about a socket under the sink often ignore the fact that half the D. B, s in this this country are located in the hallway, downstairs by the frontdoor, with the upstairs bathroom directly overhead. Now that makes, me feel incomfortable

I've dealt with a few leaks over the years, but never once at the plumbing under a kitchen sink. It's more the idea of such placement that doesn't sit well with me, rather than the reality, but it's certainly a lot more accessible than behind the adjacent appliance.

 

[nicebutdim]

I think "Kitchen Designers" is an oxymoron, the tray space is a very useful way or storing trays without taking up room in the kitchen cupboards, in a UK standard Kitchen space is at a premium with White goods as most house's do not have Utility rooms, so I feel it is an acceptable solution to the socket accessibility problem most perceive they have.

Do people still have trays in their homes? Must admit it's not something we have in this house - on the rare occasion a guest ventures through the door, we put their food directly onto a plate.

It's easy to make flippant comments about the work that others do, but I'd imagine that the people who design kitchens are up against it from every angle. Customers want the nicest looking kitchen that money can buy, but often wont want to pay more than the prices on display in B&Q. I'd imagine practicality and aesthetics are afforded equal priority by their customers, so eveything must look perfect, while affording Tardis like spaces behind each door.

A nicely fitted kitchen would not have the white goods on display, they would use integrated units, then I would agree the tray space should have a narrow door or sliding unit which would make the sockets readily accessible.

This is what I imagine most designers would aim for, provided the budget allows - everything fully integrated, except an oven for obvious reasons and other appliances ideally situated elsewhere. Although not much can be done to hide a washer or dryer if they're fitted in a kitchen

The idea of an enclosed tray space is certainly much better than a visible gap, but I can't see most people wanting it.


Ultimately I'm happy to move an appliance to access its plug as generally it'll be coming out for repair or replacement. For all other occasions I use the means of isolation fitted above worktop level.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I seem to have started a bit of a discussion on this point, with nicebutdim and his sycophant DPG, but as you become more mature you find that trays are a convenient thing to use when you wish to eat in comfort in the living room watching the TV, the children have moved out and you do what you want rather than panda to your wants or your aspiration's for them.

Flippant or not my comment re "Kitchen Designers" being an oxymoron was a genuine comment, the design of a kitchen layout is one of the easiest things to do, if you can draw and work to scale, if that is too difficult for some then so be it, be in awe of those that can.

If guests venture into our house then obviously the full regalia is used in the dinning room with the best cutlery, candelabra with the Villeroy Bosch china, but it happens less and less as your peers die off.

 

[DPG]

I seem to have started a bit of a discussion on this point, with nicebutdim and his sycophant DPG, but as you become more mature you find that trays are a convenient thing to use when you wish to eat in comfort in the living room watching the TV, the children have moved out and you do what you want rather than panda to your wants or your aspiration's for them.

Flippant or not my comment re "Kitchen Designers" being an oxymoron was a genuine comment, the design of a kitchen layout is one of the easiest things to do, if you can draw and work to scale, if that is too difficult for some then so be it, be in ore of those that can.

Mike, I've resisted making some comments previously, and will endeavour to keep doing the same, despite your obvious feeling that you are more knowledgable about everything than other people.

You really don't like it when people make negative comments about your posts do you?


Also I see you're jealous about me liking other people's posts rather than yours. Makes me chuckle that, thanks.

Oh, and it's 'pander', not bloody panda!

 

[Mike Johnson]

Never resist, it's nice to think I keep you on your TOW'S but it's very gratifying that you need to follow my post so closely, you obviously have nothing better to do?

 

[DPG]

Never resist, but it's very gratifying that you need to follow my post so closely, have you nothing better to do?

I'm following interesting threads. Your posts interrupt them every now and again.

 

[Mike Johnson]

There is a convenient block on the side bar, use it if you don't want to read my posts.

 

[DPG]

There is a convenient block on the side bar, use it if you don't want to read my posts.

Thanks Mike. Appreciate the tip.

 

[Mike Johnson]

You are welcome, but as a "Patron" of this Forum you ought to be more tolerant of other peoples views and post's.

 

[nicebutdim]

I seem to have started a bit of a discussion on this point, with nicebutdim and his sycophant DPG, but as you become more mature you find that trays are a convenient thing to use when you wish to eat in comfort in the living room watching the TV, the children have moved out and you do what you want rather than panda to your wants or your aspiration's for them.

Flippant or not my comment re "Kitchen Designers" being an oxymoron was a genuine comment, the design of a kitchen layout is one of the easiest things to do, if you can draw and work to scale, if that is too difficult for some then so be it, be in awe of those that can.

I think you're giving me too much credit by implying that anyone might care about my opinions.

Getting back on track, the point I was making is that those guys need to turn out work to a certain aesthetic and practical standard. While customers will make all manner of requests that need to be accomodated, it's unlikely that many will request space for sockets inbetween appliances - furthermore, if this inclusion was suggested to those customers, I suspect the vast majority would dismiss the idea out of hand. I'm not in awe of kitchen designers, but simply recognise the fact that they're serving customers and, while they can suggest various ideas, can not force those customers into anything that isn't a legal requirement.

To put it another way; if I'd suggested that our recent kitchen had incorporated a tray space, I can assure you that Mrs nicebutdim would have made herself very clear in explaining that nothing of the sort would be a part of her new kitchen.

 

[pc1966]

My own view on fitted kitchens is the concern that once an appliance dies you can't get a replacement that fits the "fitted" hole. In my own case i have very limited depth for the washing machine and recently found only 2-3 models out of 100+ on most sites would fit. Same issue with the fridge/freezer, NEF stopped making that size years ago so I had to get creative with the jigsaw to fit something else

Maybe not a concern for those who feel an "upgrade" is needed every 5 years, but for a tight-wad like myself I want to use the same layout for decades!

 

[Mike Johnson]

The sliding tray space with door I have incorporated into our kitchen design in France, is also used to house the many cutting boards we have, it is so convenient I can't see us doing without it, cleans up the kitchen worktops and stops us have to search for a cutting board.

 

[nicebutdim]

My own view on fitted kitchens is the concern that once an appliance dies you can't get a replacement that fits the "fitted" hole. In my own case i have very limited depth for the washing machine and recently found only 2-3 models out of 100+ on most sites would fit. Same issue with the fridge/freezer, NEF stopped making that size years ago so I had to get creative with the jigsaw to fit something else

Maybe not a concern for those who feel an "upgrade" is needed every 5 years, but for a tight-wad like myself I want to use the same layout for decades!

Most appliances are of fairly standard dimensions in kitchens built during the last 30+ years. Integrated microwaves would be the main exception and it's basically impossible to replace them without leaving (or having to fill) gaps.

 

[nicebutdim]

The sliding tray space with door I have incorporated into our kitchen design in France, is also used to house the many cutting boards we have, it is so convenient I can't see us doing without it, cleans up the kitchen worktops and stops us have to search for a cutting board.

I'd have no issue with that design, Mike. I just don't see it being an easy sell to the average punter.