will it fit, and is it acceptable?

[telectrix]

got a job to install a new cct. for a cooker. 6mm on a 32A MCB, i thought. went to look at the job to find he's got a hagar (1361 fuses) board with a spare way. it looks as if a hagar MCB will fit in the spare way as it's a standard type busbar. there's no RCD in sight, but as the 6mm is all surface, i can live with that. client won't pay for a CU upgrade at the moment. if push comes to shove, it might be possible to fit a 32A RCBO.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Tel why don't you use that spare way in the CU to feed a small enclosure that will have a RCD in it.

So you can either use the Fuse 1361 or your MCB for your overload protection and then your RCD will give you the additional protection.

Though as you say the circuit is surface there is a good chance that the manufacturer of any new cooker/oven/hob will want RCD protection

 

[Octopus]

If its all surface why would you need a RCD, if the instructions don't specify one!

 

[telectrix]

the spare way is blank, no fuse carrier. the cooker is second hand. easiest option is RCBO or MCB if it'll fit. spent an hour this morning removing a D/socket that was directly above where the cooker is going, with a FCU and diagonal cable, buried, to cooker hood. this socket was spurred off an existing D/socket which had been removed, the spur cable choc blocked and taped, then cardboard over the hole and plastered over. have refitted socket in original position. now need to fit FCU above for hood. job was finish plastered last week, so there's going to be some remedial plastering done. thinking about it, some of the 6mm will be chased in so a RCD of 1 sort or another is required.

 

[Guitarist]

How about a shower/garage RCD CU with a 32A MCB, straight off a henley block? Much easier than messing about in an old fuseboard.

 

[malcolmsanford]

With the revamping of regulation 537.1.3, G there could be some ambiguity here.

What your proposing mate IMO is perfectly acceptable by Henley blocking the tails and going into a small enclosure. The only thing now is that with certain interpretations of this reg and 537.1.4 you may have to also fit a main switch in that enclosure.

What I suggested by using the spare way in the CU, is that you would be able utilize the main switch in the CU to conform with the above regs. As said mate I would have no problems with your way, just that you could be leaving this open to interpretation, whereas using the main CU switch you cover all possibilities

 

[DaveyD]

What your proposing mate IMO is perfectly acceptable by Henley blocking the tails and going into a small enclosure. The only thing now is that with certain interpretations of this reg and 537.1.4 you may have to also fit a main switch in that enclosure.

That's interesting. I just split tails on a TT with just a 100ma timed RCD and CB to feed an swa submain. I assumed the RCD was ok as a main switch. Not so?

 

[telectrix]

sorted. just bought a brand new hager 32A RCBO off ebay for £13.50 inc. postage. it will fit in the existing CU. good old hager, keeping things so new gear will fit retro. in the older boards. gone this route as it's going to make a much neater job in his kitchen to chase in to and from the cooker switch, rather than having mini-trunking. ythis bit of chased in cable necessitates the need for RCD protection. (522.6.101.)

 

[Guest55]

....I assumed the RCD was ok as a main switch. Not so?

so long as its double pole rcd , no problem.

 

[oldtimer]

Dont want to rain on your parade but I had a problem with a 1361 Hager board as the cartridge fuse had blown and this was sourced to the GU10 lamp blowing fine so the letting agent said we cannot call you out every time a lamp goes how do you fix it so I wrote ta hager and they said no you cannot put a mcb in. Will try and dig this out.

Here you go

Me Technical question:
Hi can you swap over on a Hagar consumer unit a BS1361 cartridge fuse holder with a Hager MCB
ie will a MCB fit

Hagar
Hi



I'm sorry there is no MCB that will fit in place of the cartridge fuse



Regards



Carl








Hager Technical Support UK

Hager Ltd

Hortonwood 50

TELFORD, Shropshire

TF1 7FT

United Kingdom

[email protected]

tel 0870 607 6677

fax 01952 675557

Now I did ask if I could replace the holder and the reply was no you cannot replace the cartridge fuse but I think they meant the cartridge fuse holder (they had better)

 

[Guitarist]

With the revamping of regulation 537.1.3, G there could be some ambiguity here.

What your proposing mate IMO is perfectly acceptable by Henley blocking the tails and going into a small enclosure. The only thing now is that with certain interpretations of this reg and 537.1.4 you may have to also fit a main switch in that enclosure.

What I suggested by using the spare way in the CU, is that you would be able utilize the main switch in the CU to conform with the above regs. As said mate I would have no problems with your way, just that you could be leaving this open to interpretation, whereas using the main CU switch you cover all possibilities

Sorry, I didn't explain it very well. I was talking about the units that come with a 63 or 80A DP RCD as their main switch, with another way for the MCB, though I do agree that it is preferable to have it all in one enclosure whenever possible.

 

[telectrix]

OK, ta for that. i'll keep you posted as i'm sure that a MCB or RCBO will fit. i've got my hammer.

 

[oldtimer]

View attachment Cartrdge fuse carrier.pdf


There you go

 

[Swicade]

Hagar mcb's/rcbo's will fit in the old cartridge fuse mcb boards with no problem....i've done it meself afew times now when needing to add an extra shower circuit in council properties haveing the bath removed making them wet rooms for elderly/disabled tenants.

 

[oldtimer]

Hagar mcb's/rcbo's will fit in the old cartridge fuse mcb boards with no problem....i've done it meself afew times now when needing to add an extra shower circuit in council properties haveing the bath removed making them wet rooms for elderly/disabled tenants.

Typical Hager next time I get one of these I will get a MCB out the motor and check this out

Thanks

 

[telectrix]

so. hager say they won't fit. forum brains say they will. i know who i'm going to believe! (forum members aren't trying to sell new CUs)

 

[oldtimer]

Anyway tell me how it goes the problem I had was I was called out and my tin where I keep the spare mcbs in did not have an hagar (I do now) or I would have tried it

 

[rich.250]

That's interesting. I just split tails on a TT with just a 100ma timed RCD and CB to feed an swa submain. I assumed the RCD was ok as a main switch. Not so?

That's fine mate.
Table 53.4 has your answer

 

[UNG]

Dont want to rain on your parade but I had a problem with a 1361 Hager board as the cartridge fuse had blown and this was sourced to the GU10 lamp blowing fine so the letting agent said we cannot call you out every time a lamp goes how do you fix it so I wrote ta hager and they said no you cannot put a mcb in. Will try and dig this out.

Here you go

Me Technical question:
Hi can you swap over on a Hagar consumer unit a BS1361 cartridge fuse holder with a Hager MCB
ie will a MCB fit

Hagar
Hi



I'm sorry there is no MCB that will fit in place of the cartridge fuse



Regards



Carl








Hager Technical Support UK

Hager Ltd

Hortonwood 50

TELFORD, Shropshire

TF1 7FT

United Kingdom

[email protected]

tel 0870 607 6677

fax 01952 675557

Now I did ask if I could replace the holder and the reply was no you cannot replace the cartridge fuse but I think they meant the cartridge fuse holder (they had better)

From Hager's comment it sounds like they are suggesting there is no MCB the size and shape of a cartridge fuse they seem to overlook changing the cartridge fuse holder for an MCB which BTW I have done many times