Wireless Smoke & Heat Detectors

[gryphon]

With new legislation in Scotland coming in shortly i was wondering what's peoples preferred maker of 10 year lithium battery smoke and heat detectors.

 

[Dartlec]

BS 5839:2019 Table 1 Grade D (1/2) which covers majority of domestic installations (not sure about Scotland though) states;
Mains Powered and battery back up!

A totally wireless system presumably is not permitted?

I've seen guidance (I forget where - possibly in an ESF document), that when a tenant is on a key meter and may go through periods with no power, a battery only solution may be preferable - as it ensures that the alarm is still active when they have no money on a Friday night to load the meter.

Not sure what the standby time is on the mains ones with lithum battery - they may still be the best option though.

From my experience with EICRs on rented properties , the 9V battery backup ones are pointless as they will either run out or be removed when the toast sets them off - same with those on their own circuit - that circuit always ends up turned off.

 

[littlespark]

The legislation is trying to do away with the 9v replacable battery’s for just that... people taking the battery out...

I saw a fire angel pro display in Homebase that stated they were “used by 90% of fire brigades”
Yes.... cheap and cheerful. When the fire service would put one in when none existed before. The cheap ones they put in are now all illegal (in Scotland)
Actually....my local Homebase is in England.


Edit
I signed up for the aico expert installer course... it’s done online now.
possibly just going over the instructions regarding positioning, but maybe I get a badge???

 

[pc1966]

It beggars belief, but as said above, the number of times folk remove the PP3 batteries from alarms for kid's toys, etc. Surprising when thought about, and sad when it is discovered in a fatal accident inquiry.

I personally prefer ones I can replace the battery in, but then I like to think I am not a complete muppet who is going for a trip on moron road!

 

[Dartlec]

The legislation is trying to do away with the 9v replacable battery’s for just that... people taking the battery out...

I saw a fire angel pro display in Homebase that stated they were “used by 90% of fire brigades”
Yes.... cheap and cheerful. When the fire service would put one in when none existed before. The cheap ones they put in are now all illegal (in Scotland)
Actually....my local Homebase is in England.

Didn't they have a problem a few years back when a load of their '10 year battery' ones were giving up after 3 years?

Still better than nothing at all I guess...

 

[littlespark]

A 10 year battery smoke detector will work for all that time as long as it doesn’t go off.
Surely every time it sounds, the battery will be depleted a bit

 

[pirate]

I usually install a mains powered smoke with 10 year battery, run off the hall lighting circuit, and use radio linked battery only for the other smokes/heat. I think every time the alarm sounds on the battery ones they will deplete a little, but apart from the monthly test that lasts about 10 seconds, i doubt if that depletion will significantly reduce the 10 year life.

 

[Ziggie]

BS 5839:2019 Table 1 Grade D (1/2) which covers majority of domestic installations (not sure about Scotland though) states;
Mains Powered and battery back up!

A totally wireless system presumably is not permitted?

The system in Scotland states the fire alarms need to be interlink but does not define if you can’t use wireless to achieve it. Carbon Monoxide alarms don’t need to be interlinked into the system.

 

[Ziggie]

I have an EI smoke alarm and it’s worked for 35 years. It’s testing doesn’t need a smoke canister to check although my alarm company checks it yearly. It is connected into my monitored system. It comes in battery and mains powered and wired and wireless.

 

[pirate]

In Scotland you can now fit all-battery radio linked in rented houses and existing houses. This is to encourage fitting. However, I believe that Building Control have not yet adopted this, so in new builds hard wired mains powered is still the way to go. Nobody ever checked up on my rentals, it's the rules to have detectors, and until recently they had to be hard-wired. Just as with EPCs, it's the landlord's duty to have one, but nobody ever checked unless a problem arose. I used the hybrid layout I mentioned earlier and made an enquiry of BC and they effectively shrugged and said it was fine in the circumstances, but obviously not in writing. Their attitude was that they were more concerned that landlords did actually fit something, rather than do nothing. A tenant did, some years ago, remove the detector from the kitchen ceiling in one of my flats, because of nuisance alarms. Thereafter when I fitted the new Aico system they couldn't readily do that, and anyway nuisance alarms didn't occur.

 

[littlespark]

I have an EI smoke alarm and it’s worked for 35 years. It’s testing doesn’t need a smoke canister to check although my alarm company checks it yearly. It is connected into my monitored system. It comes in battery and mains powered and wired and wireless.

Isnt there a "replace by" date on this smoke detector? usually 10 years also.
EI electronics is Aico under a different name.

The Scot govt publication does state mains powered OR long life battery, with hard wired interlink OR radio.... so that covers it.
It makes sense to make them hard wired in new builds, while the rest of the wiring is being done. Cheaper when it comes to replacing them.

 

[richy3333]

In Scotland you can now fit all-battery radio linked in rented houses and existing houses.

Do you have a link for this as it was my understanding they still had to be hard wired? I'd like to update my info.

 

[Ziggie]

Do you have a link for this as it was my understanding they still had to be hard wired? I'd like to update my info.

It’s on the government U.K. site. If you type Gov Scotland fire alarms in google you should find it. Interested in your opinion hard wired vs wireless and battery vs mains powered. I think the price quoted mentions diy prices and states you need electrician off hard wired!

 

[Ziggie]

It’s on the government U.K. site. If you type Gov Scotland fire alarms in google you should find it. Interested in your opinion hard wired vs wireless and battery vs mains powered. I think the price quoted mentions diy prices and states you need electrician off hard wired!

In addition the site mentions a guidance document and I quote from it:
“Mains-operated alarms (with battery backup) are permitted, and tamper proof long-life lithium battery alarms (i.e. not PP3 type or user-replaceable) are also permitted. Alarms should be regularly maintained and tested in accordance with manufacturer’s instructions.”

 

[Mike Johnson]

Never seems to get mentioned that the Aico 3000 series of alarms HAVE to be mains powered to charge the batteries that enable the ten year period to be maintained, if not mains powered the battery will keep the units working for four months only.

 

[ferg]

Never seems to get mentioned that the Aico 3000 series of alarms HAVE to be mains powered to charge the batteries that enable the ten year period to be maintained, if not mains powered the battery will keep the units working for four months only.

I think it's expected that mains powered battery backup detectors would need to have mains power.