Working on live distribution boards?

[Davehaywire]

Can anyone tell me if I'm asked to work on a live db be it TP or SP lv ,by my employer,as I have done for many many years in cases where the board cannot be isolated for various reasons.
if for some reason I'm electrocuted and I have a hot works permit or not, should my employers insurance cover me for injury,death,loss of work, or should I have my own insurance.
can you get insurance for hot works or not?
i have wondered about this for a while, I have a family now, so if for some reason the worst scenario happens,what happens? What can I or my employer do to cover for this?
can any1 enlighten me

 

[Hawkmoon]

In the ideal world you don't do it...

In the REAL world you risk assess then...

 

[D Skelton]

In the ideal world you don't do it...

In the REAL world you risk assess then...

Exactly! lol

 

[ipf]

In the ideal world you don't do it...

In the REAL world you risk assess then...

Talkin' bleedin' RAMS on a friday night................................................:mad2:

 

[netblindpaul]

Tony, E54, I DO understand where you are coming from.
However, there has been a sea change in attitude.
Think drink driving, 60 years ago it was almost acceptable.
Now?
Well live working now has the same stigma.
Do I, I'll claim the American 5th Amendment I think it is known as.
Live testing is OK.
Live working does have to be risk assessed, and financial requirements are at the bottom of the list.
End of.
I had a guy on a course I was teaching last year that was in a room working on a mains intake.
All isolated, all safe, then an arc flash occurred, the guy working in the panel was engulfed in flames, his hi-vis caught fire on his back and set his clothes alight, he was "medivacced" out by air ambulance.
Why, the "other" side of the panel was live, there was swarf that had crossed the containment between compartments.
The guys working on the panels were oblivious to the danger.
They were not working live.
A tool breached the barrier, which in conjunction with the swarf caused an arc flash.

The guy just about got way with his life, as the flash occurred in a confined space.


What WAS acceptable, is no longer.
E54, I KNOW the company you worked for, and it is not acceptable there now either.


However, I do agree that the standard of training now is abysmal, IMHO, and there is nothing I can do about it even when I am called upon to deliver the odd course, I try, but 4 days is just not enough.

 

[shanky887614]

Tony, E54, I DO understand where you are coming from.
However, there has been a sea change in attitude.
Think drink driving, 60 years ago it was almost acceptable.
Now?
Well live working now has the same stigma.
Do I, I'll claim the American 5th Amendment I think it is known as.
Live testing is OK.
Live working does have to be risk assessed, and financial requirements are at the bottom of the list.
End of.
I had a guy on a course I was teaching last year that was in a room working on a mains intake.
All isolated, all safe, then an arc flash occurred, the guy working in the panel was engulfed in flames, his hi-vis caught fire on his back and set his clothes alight, he was "medivacced" out by air ambulance.
Why, the "other" side of the panel was live, there was swarf that had crossed the containment between compartments.
The guys working on the panels were oblivious to the danger.
They were not working live.
A tool breached the barrier, which in conjunction with the swarf caused an arc flash.

The guy just about got way with his life, as the flash occurred in a confined space.


What WAS acceptable, is no longer.
E54, I KNOW the company you worked for, and it is not acceptable there now either.


However, I do agree that the standard of training now is abysmal, IMHO, and there is nothing I can do about it even when I am called upon to deliver the odd course, I try, but 4 days is just not enough.

Common sense must provale and drilling a panel like that is completely different to say in a 24v panel, 230 sockets, switches etc

 

[Hawkmoon]

Talkin' bleedin' RAMS on a friday night................................................:mad2:

In my defense I have had a 'couple' of stellas this evening but at the risk of appearing ignorant/stupid, what the ferk is RAMS?? (never been good with abbreviations!)

 

[Hawkmoon]

Life is a risk in many ways: driving to work / crossing the road / smoking / drinking etc

Working on live equipment is no different if we consider (risk assess) that the risk is low...

We may worry about our wives becoming widows and will they get their insurance payouts etc...

But, bear in mind, these women probably would not even be with us if we were whining, cowards hiding in the corner, unwilling to take calculated risks for the benefit of financial gain etc!


I say WE ARE MEN - and it's in the 'job description' lol

 

[D Skelton]

Life is a risk in many ways: driving to work / crossing the road / smoking / drinking etc

Working on live equipment is no different if we consider (risk assess) that the risk is low...

We may worry about our wives becoming widows and will they get their insurance payouts etc...

But, bear in mind, these women probably would not even be with us if we were whining, cowards hiding in the corner, unwilling to take calculated risks for the benefit of financial gain etc!


I say WE ARE MEN - and it's in the 'job description' lol

Put so eloquently there!

 

[jeremy]

Risk Assessment Method Statement. Not the sheepy kind, that would be a bit strange, they're boy sheep.

 

[jaythegooner]

hi all
a bit late into this post but here goes ,you are not allowed to work live on a any panel , db , or any other board unless suitable training and appropriate clothing ( face guard , 1000v gloves , basically a rubber suit, e,on clothing for sub stations . if you were killed your insurance would be invalid as it would be deemed as careless on your behalf ,and your employer jailed .hope it helps regards jason .

 

[netblindpaul]

hi all
a bit late into this post but here goes ,you are not allowed to work live on a any panel , db , or any other board unless suitable training and appropriate clothing ( face guard , 1000v gloves , basically a rubber suit, e,on clothing for sub stations . if you were killed your insurance would be invalid as it would be deemed as careless on your behalf ,and your employer jailed .hope it helps regards jason .

Not quite, too much inaccuracies in your statements.

What is "e,on clothing" {sic}?

 

[D Skelton]

Not quite, too much inaccuracies in your statements.

What is "e,on clothing" {sic}?

Anyone carrying out live work has to have the letter 'e' stamped all over their clothing obviously!

 

[Guest111]

OK as a twist I'll throw in an incident fron just before christmas,we needed a new service head,the old black Lucy one was damaged.So out comes a young lad from the networks,he was a nice chap and we got talking and I asked him about live working,this is where it gets interesting.To replace the head you remove the cover,then the plastic shroud from inside the fuse carrier,slacken 4 screws,2 on the live block and 2 on the neutral,remove 2 fixing screws and slide unit upwards.You are now left with the phase and neutral conductors spaced approx 2inches apart,slide new unit on tighten screws secure to board and replace cover,job done.Nice easy,dry and well lit,the job takes about 10 minutes.However this is not the correct way as it is classed as working live,the correct way is to excavate the cable,strip back and cut it,bearing in mind it's live! then replace the head then rejoin the cable in the hole possibly in the wet,possibly in poor light and from experience in a small hole bent over.I could not believe it when he told me this,I know which option I'd prefer and which I think is safest.Needless to say he did it the way I'd have done,as he said common sense needs to be applied,had it been a pitch filled cast iron head then there would have been a different outcome.

 

[netblindpaul]

OK as a twist I'll throw in an incident fron just before christmas,we needed a new service head,the old black Lucy one was damaged.So out comes a young lad from the networks,he was a nice chap and we got talking and I asked him about live working,this is where it gets interesting.To replace the head you remove the cover,then the plastic shroud from inside the fuse carrier,slacken 4 screws,2 on the live block and 2 on the neutral,remove 2 fixing screws and slide unit upwards.You are now left with the phase and neutral conductors spaced approx 2inches apart,slide new unit on tighten screws secure to board and replace cover,job done.Nice easy,dry and well lit,the job takes about 10 minutes.However this is not the correct way as it is classed as working live,the correct way is to excavate the cable,strip back and cut it,bearing in mind it's live! then replace the head then rejoin the cable in the hole possibly in the wet,possibly in poor light and from experience in a small hole bent over.I could not believe it when he told me this,I know which option I'd prefer and which I think is safest.Needless to say he did it the way I'd have done,as he said common sense needs to be applied,had it been a pitch filled cast iron head then there would have been a different outcome.

Not specifically you phil d, but it needs to be understood that the DNO's are considered competent for live working.
However, round here (WPD), you would NEVER get a lone worker doing a cut out change, safe, new, damaged or not.
It would just not be done, a cut out change is a 2 man job, end of.
I've had a few done now and it always is, and they tell me always will be, and they consider it safer than a live cut & splice in the road.
The only time a live cut & splice is done is to remove a BS951 clamp from a lead sheath for works of this kind.
Again as far as I have been told.

 

[Guest111]

Not specifically you phil d, but it needs to be understood that the DNO's are considered competent for live working.
However, round here (WPD), you would NEVER get a lone worker doing a cut out change, safe, new, damaged or not.
It would just not be done, a cut out change is a 2 man job, end of.
I've had a few done now and it always is, and they tell me always will be, and they consider it safer than a live cut & splice in the road.
The only time a live cut & splice is done is to remove a BS951 clamp from a lead sheath for works of this kind.
Again as far as I have been told.

That's what I thought,to me doing a splice live is more dangerous than changing a head live but that's what the man said their policy was,he was sent out as it was deemed dangerous and it was 7.30 at night,so he said he could do it without the splice as it had been classed as urgent.