Young boy killed in pub garden

mattg4321

mattg4321

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www.thesun.co.uk

Parents of electrocuted boy, 7, sob in court watching CCTV of his final moments

THE parents of a little boy killed by an electric shock as he played in a pub garden sobbed in court today as they watched CCTV of his final moments. Harvey Tyrrell, seven, suffered a massive shock…
www.thesun.co.uk www.thesun.co.uk

Not sure if this has been posted before but it just goes to show that eventually someone does get hurt. We’ve all seen loads of jobs where we wonder how it didn’t kill someone.

The terminology in the article is bad, but reading between the lines it sounds like no rcd protection and no cpc at class 1 outside lights. Probably poorly fitted too no doubt. By an ‘electrician’ with 50 years experience! He should really be facing jail time imo.

It doesn’t surprise me that it was a pub. Most of them are death traps from what I’ve seen.
 
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some of the older pubs have electrics even worse than farms. last one i declined to work on has a CU behind the bar, just below ceiling height. so many cables added to an overloaded CU that the cover could not be fitted. 1 MCB had 7 2.5mm cables stuffed in it. I quoted £3000 for a new CU. thankfully, he never got back to me.
 
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telectrix said:
last pub i went to quote on was a nightmare. CU high level behind bar but could be reached off a stool. no cover on it, more cables than screwfix stock. was a 10 way board and it needed at least a 20 way. loads of bodged additions. quoted him 2 grand to replace with full 20 way RCBO board and wasn't surprised when he didn't accept.
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telectrix said:
some of the older pubs have electrics even worse than farms. last one i declined to work on has a CU behind the bar, just below ceiling height. so many cables added to an overloaded CU that the cover could not be fitted. 1 MCB had 7 2.5mm cables stuffed in it. I quoted £3000 for a new CU. thankfully, he never got back to me.
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You suffering from short term memory loss. Get to the chippy quick, before you forget where you've stashed your Hob Goblin ?
 
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brianmoooore said:
This is exactly what I did. As well as identifying and clearing the fault that I was there for, I identified 2 x C1 (the 460 volts in the lighting circuit and the missing blanks in the board) and did something about them. In both cases I did not 'repair' properly, but made safe with the materials and tools I had at hand.
There were C2s as well (the obviously overloaded kitchen circuits) which I did nothing about, except speak to the landlord about when I next saw him, and strongly recommended their improvement.
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Interesting discussion.

I note on the HSE web site, a few things.

Firstly, HSE is not directly responsible for pubs, clubs or restaurants. The local authority has that responsibility.

HSE also advices, that if you have safety concerns, you should report them to 'the person in charge of the work, your employer, your union or employee representative'. Failing that, you can report your concerns to them via an on-line form, or ring them and they will complete the form for you.

In this tragic incident, the case was bought by the local authority. It was also mentioned in the court case, that the landlord, had been previously warned to take action by the local authorities.

From my limited knowledge of HSE, their role is of encouragement of health & safety in the workplace and enforcement last.

I think the distinction of carrying out emergency repairs on a property, and carrying out dangerous installation work, is clear. I can't see anyone being prosecuted, for making something safer, than it previously was. And showing due diligence, by reporting their safety concerns, to the person in charge, as suggested by HSE.
 
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I think the prosecution have definately failed to outline the responsibility of the electrician working on this instalation or any electrician working on any installation.

the Defence have definately done a good job, probably claiming this electrician cannot be held responsible for years of neglect.
yes I agree he can’t, but he should not have worked on that installation at all and ensured that circuit was safe for continued use with disconnection times achievable.

I suppose he could claim that there was sufficient earth when he carried out the job. But I bet there is no documentation to prove this.
in law you don’t need to prove your innocence. The prosecution need to prove your guilt.
 
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I don' like things like this. The person in the video is suggesting all sorts of things. The parents of that young boy may come across this video. They may come across this thread.

Far enough to discuss this subject, but not a specific set of circumstance, that have been ruled in court. I don't think this video should be allowed. Investigatory journalism is troublesome, and can land you in trouble, IMO.
 
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the problem with prosecutions of this kind is that the circuit may have been compliant/safe at the time it was done, but could have deteriorated since. due to corrosion etc. as said, it's up to the prosecution to prove guilt. having said that, wasn't part pee supposed to eliminate any chance of bodged electrical works? nada. no policing of dodgy "electricians" untill a case like this arises. just a means of generating income for the likes of niceic.
 
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Some additional court reporting from the Romford Recorder in this article, which also provides images of the DB to which this circuit had been connected and notable is the absence of additional protection. This work was undertaken in the early part of 2108, at which time AM3 was in force.
 
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nicebutdim said:
Some additional court reporting from the Romford Recorder in this article, which also provides images of the DB to which this circuit had been connected and notable is the absence of additional protection. This work was undertaken in the early part of 2108, at which time AM3 was in force.
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That was mentioned in the video I believe.
Midwest said:
I don' like things like this. The person in the video is suggesting all sorts of things. The parents of that young boy may come across this video. They may come across this thread.

Far enough to discuss this subject, but not a specific set of circumstance, that have been ruled in court. I don't think this video should be allowed. Investigatory journalism is troublesome, and can land you in trouble, IMO.
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I don't dislike it, you can argue 'too soon' but why not? Courts can, and do, get it wrong because the law isn't infallible. I grant you HTs parents may come across the video but I would like to think the fact that an electrician has cared enough to dissect and analyse with an aim to educate, not just to (excuse the phrase) ' teabag a corpse'. Had it been a video about how bad the parents were, why he wasn't by thier side, in view at all times and controlled, then it'd be an entirely different thing.

Why the local authority aren't in the dock on this one I have no idea, it's a licensed premises; why was it not a term of the license that it the premises is electrically sound, safe and certified for continued use? The fact that they had warned him several times previous about the state of the electrics and yet, somehow was still allowed to trade I find utter (to quote the accused) -------s.

If we aren't engaging in conversation when things like this happen then how will we learn, how will we influence change and how will ensure that something like this doesn't happen again?
 
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Lister1987 said:
That was mentioned in the video I believe.

I don't dislike it, you can argue 'too soon' but why not? Courts can, and do, get it wrong because the law isn't infallible. I grant you HTs parents may come across the video but I would like to think the fact that an electrician has cared enough to dissect and analyse with an aim to educate, not just to (excuse the phrase) ' teabag a corpse'. Had it been a video about how bad the parents were, why he wasn't by thier side, in view at all times and controlled, then it'd be an entirely different thing.

Why the local authority aren't in the dock on this one I have no idea, it's a licensed premises; why was it not a term of the license that it the premises is electrically sound, safe and certified for continued use? The fact that they had warned him several times previous about the state of the electrics and yet, somehow was still allowed to trade I find utter (to quote the accused) -------s.

If we aren't engaging in conversation when things like this happen then how will we learn, how will we influence change and how will ensure that something like this doesn't happen again?
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Don't know why, but some electrician making some sort of case after the fact, then posting a video on social media, just doesn't sit right with me. I gave up watching after a few minutes.
 
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The thing I can't understand is that the HSE report and transcripts of the court case aren't available for public purusal. I would have thought a case like this they would be a matter of public record, shame as I really want to see the HSE report.
 
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