You're all cowboys! :D

[highspark]

Just been to another Consumer Unit job-quote. Told him bonding needs upgrading. "OH THE OTHER FELLA DIDN'T MENTION THAT" I was 20 quid more expensive with bonding to gas and water. Hes got another lad coming out tomorrow, hope hes worth his salt and mentions the bonding but is more expensive than me. If he doesn't theres another one to the cowboys!

 

[Matty o]

Sorry missed the bonding part
but my reply still stands i would try and persuade them to have it done but if they refuse i feel i have have done my part and happy that i am not leaving the house in any worse state than when i arrived.
i would note it on the MW that they would not have it done.

 

[richy3333]

Sorry missed the bonding part
but my reply still stands i would try and persuade them to have it done but if they refuse i feel i have have done my part and happy that i am not leaving the house in any worse state than when i arrived.
i would note it on the MW that they would not have it done.

Really?? And your view on Reg 132.16 is...

 

[Matty o]

Not got the book with me for the exact wording but by fitting the rcd socket is the bonding such a issue.

It is a hard one but in some ways i would rather to do it than say no and then they go and do it themselves after all its made no difference to their lack of safety if anything you have made it safer by them having a socket where they want instead of a lead across the floor.

Taking it further does this mean you would not change a broken socket front as the bonding is not up to latest standard.

 

[richy3333]

Not got the book with me for the exact wording but by fitting the rcd socket is the bonding such a issue.

It is a hard one but in some ways i would rather to do it than say no and then they go and do it themselves after all its made no difference to their lack of safety if anything you have made it safer by them having a socket where they want instead of a lead across the floor.

Taking it further does this mean you would not change a broken socket front as the bonding is not up to latest standard.

Blinding! Well I'm glad you aren't doing my electrical work mate and to be fair it is a Reg you should really know. Basically, no addition or alteration either temporary or permanent should be done to an existing installation unless the earthing and bonding arrangements are adequate (I've paraphrased).

If you're a Spark you work to the Regs, or better. What Mr and Mrs householder or DIY Dave does is up to them but you're supposed to be a professional?

Do you really believe what you're saying/writing?!

 

[pencilpusher]

Not got the book with me for the exact wording but by fitting the rcd socket is the bonding such a issue.

It is a hard one but in some ways i would rather to do it than say no and then they go and do it themselves after all its made no difference to their lack of safety if anything you have made it safer by them having a socket where they want instead of a lead across the floor.

Taking it further does this mean you would not change a broken socket front as the bonding is not up to latest standard.

Matty o , You cannot be that desperate for £40.00? That is against the Regs, period.

 

[Andy 7671]

I with option D

You are not providing a new circuit just add a point to an existing one.
The cable is surface mounted.
If the socket might be used to power equipment outdoors i would fit a RCD socket

Lecturer..."Any socket that may reasonably be expected to supply portable equipment outside the equipotential zone must have a disconnection time of .2 secs" I couldnt find it, only anything 32A and above was mentioned with this time value.

 

[Big n Daft]

Its an easy one really.......

If the bondings ok and its not in a special location and not going to be used for outdoor equipment and........, run it mt with no rcd.

If the bondings not ok, this has to be done before anything else can even be thought of, period.

In reality, its a minimum of bonding done and an rcd spur.

Simples:coffee:

 

[grimysparks80]

Personally I think you should be allowed to do the job having advised the customer of the other things that need to be done and on the basis that you are not making the house any less safe.

If the regs said i could do the work and leave the bonding as long as i advised them of it I would do so without a moments hesitation, and would not feel any guilt if they were hurt because they ignored my advice.

However the Regs do not say this so the answer has to be A.

Whats the point of having Regs if you just ignore them when they are inconvenient?

 

[Octopus]

Whats the point of having Regs if you just ignore them when they are inconvenient?

Whats the point of the regs if NO attempt is made to educate the public!

We're the mugs who have to tell people that they need work done, which they believe is unnecessary, and costly.

 

[Heisenberg]

With bonding me answer D stands to the regs and not the urban myths that the NIC have imposed on our brains that anything we touch needs to be on an rcd.

Whilst I'm always happy to see people put the boot into the NIC :60: , I don't think they are alone in taking that stance...

Alterations and additions in domestic and similar premises : Electrical Safety Council

Q1 and Q3

 

[Des 56]

The problem that will always be in this industry,is installers can be educated in whats required and their hands are then tied by being aware
Other installers have no idea of whats required,they install away till the cows come home

Installation,even with this part prat thing,is to all extents and purposes an open field to all to have a go

We,unfortunately have to follow what is advised
We stand idly by whilst the ignorant are permitted, and given the green light, to do what they think or couldn't care should be done

It can never change,because these practices are only important in our eyes,electricity is not the extensive lethal killer we may all assume

Installation can never be monitored.however,inspection can provide improvement

We, however, are pressured by it all to either have to lose work or sometimes drop the standards to get a look in
As it stands its a no win situation that aint gonna change soon

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Honestly?....probably C ......I would add that the install does not meet current standards,but that adding this socket will not in any way reduce the present safety of the installation. I would NOT undertake any more extensive work than the described...but bonding aside,prior to 2008 the install you describe would have complied anyway..(just 4 years ago!)

Not got the book with me for the exact wording but by fitting the rcd socket is the bonding such a issue.

It is a hard one but in some ways i would rather to do it than say no and then they go and do it themselves after all its made no difference to their lack of safety if anything you have made it safer by them having a socket where they want instead of a lead across the floor.

Taking it further does this mean you would not change a broken socket front as the bonding is not up to latest standard.

Blinding! Well I'm glad you aren't doing my electrical work mate and to be fair it is a Reg you should really know. Basically, no addition or alteration either temporary or permanent should be done to an existing installation unless the earthing and bonding arrangements are adequate (I've paraphrased).

If you're a Spark you work to the Regs, or better. What Mr and Mrs householder or DIY Dave does is up to them but you're supposed to be a professional?

Do you really believe what you're saying/writing?!

I think there is more to consider here than is first apparent. If the client could well afford to have their install upgraded then I would walk away. If the client was an OAP,who could not afford to upgrade,and needed an extra socket...and in my opinion based on 30yrs in the game(most of it as a full NIC approved)...adding one socket not on an RCD and with no bonding would not reduce the current safety of the install,then yes....I may well do it as a cash job with no cert....I dont think that is necessarily unprofessional,especially when the said install has been in perfectly satisfactory use for 30 or 40 years,and probably will be for another 20 or 30.
It is possible to assess the risk from lack of bonding you know....what is the risk of simultaneous contact between CP's and ECP's in relation to the whole install and the minor addition?....assess and decide whether or not to proceed.....some might say that simply walking away is unprofessional.

 

[Matty o]

WHS

We are talking about the lack of bonding NOT the lack of a main earth.

The problem with the regs is that ask 10 sparks about it and you will get 15 answers this is where proper training comes in and the ability to interpret them and assess the risks.

 

[needasparks]

I think there is more to consider here than is first apparent. If the client could well afford to have their install upgraded then I would walk away. If the client was an OAP,who could not afford to upgrade,and needed an extra socket...and in my opinion based on 30yrs in the game(most of it as a full NIC approved)...adding one socket not on an RCD and with no bonding would not reduce the current safety of the install,then yes....I may well do it as a cash job with no cert....I dont think that is necessarily unprofessional,especially when the said install has been in perfectly satisfactory use for 30 or 40 years,and probably will be for another 20 or 30.
It is possible to assess the risk from lack of bonding you know....what is the risk of simultaneous contact between CP's and ECP's in relation to the whole install and the minor addition?....assess and decide whether or not to proceed.....some might say that simply walking away is unprofessional.

Interesting take and my heart has to agree but as matty says you will not get the same responce from any two sparks.
Shame really as that is how it always used to be, professionals making an educated guess. now and what the whole thread is about is making it harder to do the right thing.