Zone 2 lights and fan isolator switch

[ssn1122]

Hi .can someone let me know if I can install a battery operated smoke alarm and also.carbon monoxide alarm.for a rental accomodation ? Would this be satisfactory ( pass a EICR )

Secondly if i have fan isolators on zone 2 in a bathroom and ensuite so they need to be waterproof


Also if the lights in the bathroom.and ensuite are in zone 2 , do they need to be waterproof . I have been they need to be changed as they have a metallic base and they need to be plastic instead

Thanks

 

[Deleted account]

fire Detection does not form part of an EICR. This is covered by other regulations. Absence or faulty smokes will not affect the outcome of an EICR unless the actual electrics connecting the smokes is not up to scratch.

if it is for rental then smoke and heat detectors are required, but not because of the EICR. Also CO alarms may be needed. I’d always say to fit hard wired with battery back up. Don’t skimp on peoples lives. Also even if you done need a CO alarm fit it anyway as you are responsible for people’s lives.

metal light fittings, maybe need changing to plastic depending on the reason. Lights in zone 2 need to be to a specific IP rating.

 

[westward10]

I assume this is the same as this thread.

failed EICR, please can you advice | on Free Electrical Advice - Electricians Forums

Find failed EICR, please can you advice Advice and Help. How-to failed EICR, please can you advice in the Periodic Inspection Reporting & Certification advice boards on ElectriciansForums.net | Free Electrical Advice - Electricians Forums: Electricians' Talk Forums. failed EICR, please can you...

www.electriciansforums.net

 

[timhoward]

Secondly if i have fan isolators on zone 2 in a bathroom and ensuite so they need to be waterproof

As @westward10 and I have previously said in your other thread they shouldn’t be in zone 2 at all. I’d need to read regs again but I wasn’t aware of any dispensation to fit higher IP rating switches in zone 2. This may be the eicr inspector being pragmatic to save an even bigger job such as moving them to other side of door, outside the room.

Lights in zone 2 certainly need to be a certain IP rating. This won’t be a big job in most circumstances and honestly I’d just get that done.

 

[timhoward]

Just to add I've read section 701 again, and regulation 701.512.3 is absolute:
"In zone 2, switchgear, accessories incorporating switches or socket-outlets shall not be installed"
The only exceptions to this are shaver sockets and SELV (equipment using <50 v AC), neither of which apply.

 

[littlespark]

Also even if you done need a CO alarm fit it anyway as you are responsible for people’s lives.

You mean if there’s no fuel being burned, you’re put in a CO? Why is that?
No CO being produced, nothing to detect.

As for bathroom zones…. Must be a tiny bathroom if you can’t get the isolator outside zone 2

 

[James]

You mean if there’s no fuel being burned, you’re put in a CO? Why is that?
No CO being produced, nothing to detect.

As for bathroom zones…. Must be a tiny bathroom if you can’t get the isolator outside zone 2

Strangely enough, I had a customer with just that issue.

carbon monoxide detector went off.
they ventilated the flat by opening windows and doors, shut off gas at stopcock and after an hour went to bed .

couple of hours later they were woken by the alarm, must be faulty alarm, removed batteries and went back to bed.

had gas man round next day to check everything was ok
was signed off as safe
bought 2 new monoxide detectors

they both went off that evening
emergency gas man measured toxic monoxide levels, shut off gas and condemned the installation.

turns out, fumes were coming from takeaway shop next door.
was surprisingly difficult to force them to take any action.

so a co alarm is a worthwhile investment, even if the property has no fuel burning equipment.

 

[Mike Johnson]

With the advent of the Aico Ei3028 combined alarm, IMO there is no excuse not to fit them.

 

[brianmoooore]

Would be unusual, or a very low ceiling, for light fittings to be in zone 2. If they're 2.25m from the floor (not the base of the shower or bath) they're outside the zones, although there still is a reg. requiring equipment to be suitable for its environment.
I've just noticed that some of the online zone diagrams show a phantom zone 2 above the zone 1 areas, as well as the non existent one around basins.
Correct that IP20 isolator isn't allowed in zone 2.

 

[Deleted account]

You mean if there’s no fuel being burned, you’re put in a CO? Why is that?
No CO being produced, nothing to detect.

co detectors are only legally required in rooms where there is solid fuel appliance.

CO detectors for gas are only recommended.

I don’t think this is adequate. I think they should be in rooms containing any combustible appliance( gas) .

I could have worded the previous post better. If no gas or any combustible appliance then I wouldn’t fit a CO alarm. At least I wouldn’t have until I read @James post .

 

[littlespark]

What I meant was, if there’s no combustible fuel… no gas, no wood, no coal all electric… then why fit a CO.

Hearing about that other issue where the next door was causing the CO, then that can’t be placed on you for ensuring the occupants safety.

 

[Mike Johnson]

When the electric goes off and a Butane heater is brought into a draft proofed living space, lack of oxygen = CO, I really can't see any real reason not to fit CO detectors, yes you can try to justify not fitting them, but what is the cost difference in improving the safety of a residential property and the people who use it?

 

[littlespark]

When the electric goes off and a Butane heater is brought into a draft proofed living space, lack of oxygen = CO, I really can't see any real reason not to fit CO detectors, yes you can try to justify not fitting them, but what is the cost difference in improving the safety of a residential property and the people who use it?

That’s on the householder though. Unless you know about the emergency gas heater, then you can’t plan for it.

Which room would you put this CO detector, as it should be fixed to the ceiling… to protect against this portable gas appliance that you don’t know about?


Look, I’m all for making houses safer, and whenever I’m fitting smokies, I try to push for over and above the legislation, (Scotland rules) but I wouldn’t try to sell a CO detector when there’s no need for one.

Isn’t that like saying you need a brand new metal CU because the plastic one isn’t to regs?

 

[Mike Johnson]

Isn’t that like saying you need a brand new metal CU because the plastic one isn’t to regs?

No, but it is like saying put radial ply tyres on your car because cross ply tyres are not as safe.

 

[pirate]

Aico 3028 is a hard-wired...just saying.
CO detectors need to be at head height, not on the ceiling...
CO ones are cheap as chips, but why fit if no risk?

 

[WallaceP]

Aico 3028 is a hard-wired...just saying.
CO detectors need to be at head height, not on the ceiling...
CO ones are cheap as chips, but why fit if no risk?

Its a little bit funny that different manufacturers have different recommendations for where to fit Co detectors. :/

 

[pirate]

Can't argue with that, but it makes sense to have them at breathing height

 

[nicebutdim]

Can't argue with that, but it makes sense to have them at breathing height

Not necessarily as CO tends to disperse in equal concentration, within any confined space.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Can't argue with that, but it makes sense to have them at breathing height

Is that sitting down or standing up breathing height?

 

[littlespark]

FYI

https://www.aico.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/EI208-B17090-R8-UC-ENG.pdf

Kind of gone off kilter here considering the thread started off asking about bathroom zones

 

[Mike Johnson]

FYI

Kind of gone off kilter here considering the thread started off asking about bathroom zones

Original post asked about smoke alarms, bathroom zones was an additional question.

 

[littlespark]

Original post asked about smoke alarms, bathroom zones was an additional question.

You’re right, Mike.
Was just reading the thread title and a few past posts… not the OP

 

[Mike Johnson]

Well that is something I never hear at home.

 

[ssn1122]

You mean if there’s no fuel being burned, you’re put in a CO? Why is that?
No CO being produced, nothing to detect.

As for bathroom zones…. Must be a tiny bathroom if you can’t get the isolator outside zone 2

sorry it is outside zone 2

 

[brianmoooore]

sorry it is outside zone 2

How about the lights?