Smart Meter Tripping RCD

Ines Spires · Oct 27, 2018

Thought I would throw my tenant's problem regards Smart Meters (SM) into the mix, in the hope someone could maybe suggest what is going on?

May 2016 - tenants switch to E.org - no problem.
March 2017 - had Liberty 100 PAYG SM (top-Up via App) installed and immediately the RCD/fusebox starts tripping intermittently - every few hours, every day, after few days - see picture.
April 2017 - I contacted E.org and they stated that SM not cause switches to trip, fault is fusebox. Accept what they say.

Tripping continues and tenants check and monitor if appliances causing problem. None found.
BG electricians check home electrics 4 times and state domestic side and RCD all ok - Dec 2017, Aug 2018, Sept 2018 and Oct 2018.

After much elimination find Cause???!!!
Customer Top Up - when tenant tops up via app and then a few minutes later credit shows up on phone, then RCD immediately trips.
Supplier reading - after informing E.org about above and they do On Demand reading from their end, then RCD immediately trips.

E.org change SM Oct 2018 and tripping now worse.
BG check after SM change and state domestic side and RCD all ok.
E.org state that fault is RCD as have changed SM and thus are insistent they are not at fault.
BG believe it is SM, so I am between a rock and hard place.
Requested E.org replace SM with Dumb Meters as a way of eliminating or confirming SM is cause of tripping, but will only do if I pay.

Now starting case with Energy Ombudsman… And tenants’ life not good as now 3/4 times a day have to reset RCD.
Any ideas/advice?

[ElectriciansForums.net] Smart Meter Tripping RCD

Octopus · Oct 27, 2018

Get a local independent spark through recommendation to check it out

It’s hard to believe that topping up a meter can trip a rcd

Have you got a picture with the fuseboard cover open so we can see the breakers?

Deleted member 26818 · Oct 27, 2018

Theoretically, there should be reason that the meter can cause a downstream RCD to trip.

Ines Spires · Oct 27, 2018

Will get one posted with fuseboard cover open when tenant send me a picture

Wilko · Oct 27, 2018

spinlondon said:
Theoretically, there should be reason that the meter can cause a downstream RCD to trip.

Hi - is this sentence missing a NO ?

Marvo · Oct 27, 2018

Probably not the kind of advice I should be posting on the publicly viewable forum but I'd either relocate the meter a greater distance from the CU or I'd wrap the CU in thick tin foil with a bonding wire attached to it and see if the nuisance tripping stops. Obviously isolate, and do a risk assessment first etc.

Smart meters can have fairly powerful WAN transmitters and even GSM transmitters which could cause issues with RCD's if in very close proximity.

johnduffell · Oct 27, 2018

the only way to cause an imbalance on a downstream RCD is to cause a leak from one of its outgoing live conductors. Even if there is a neutral-earth fault downstream, there would still be no leak as long as there is no potential difference between earth and neutral.
If the smart meter could cause a change the potential on the neutral above earth, it would cause an imbalance in the presence of a N-E fault.
Has someone actually IR tested the neutral bar with main switch off to the MET with the main earth and all bonding and cpcs connected?

Marvo · Oct 27, 2018

Wilko said:
Hi - is this sentence missing a NO ?

I thought he'd typed should instead of could....

Octopus · Oct 27, 2018

Wilko said:
Hi - is this sentence missing a NO ?

No

Marvo · Oct 27, 2018

johnduffell said:
the only way to cause an imbalance on a downstream RCD is to cause a leak from one of its outgoing live conductors. .......

Rcd's can be sensitive to EMI, RFI and even upsteam harmonics etc.

Octopus · Oct 27, 2018

johnduffell said:
the only way to cause an imbalance on a downstream RCD is to cause a leak from one of its outgoing live conductors. Even if there is a neutral-earth fault downstream, there would still be no leak as long as there is no potential difference between earth and neutral.
If the smart meter could cause a change the potential on the neutral above earth, it would cause an imbalance in the presence of a N-E fault.
Has someone actually IR tested the neutral bar with main switch off to the MET with the main earth and all bonding and cpcs connected?

I’ve given you a disagree because lose connections on the supply side can and do trip rcds

Ines Spires · Oct 27, 2018

Will request tenant send me pic with fuseboard cover open. And reason taken so long from initial problem starting immediately when change to SM in March 2017 and going to Energy Ombudsman now is that we also could not believe top up cause RCD trip - but it is true! Also, please see below BG report picture from 11 Oct 2018.

Octopus · Oct 27, 2018

I disagree with faulty meters...

Ines Spires · Oct 27, 2018

Also, RCD trips when E.org do On Demand test from their end

johnduffell · Oct 27, 2018

Murdoch said:
I’ve given you a disagree because lose connections on the supply side can and do trip rcds

Agree completely, that's why I said "cause an imbalance" because I know there are other ways to trip an RCD.
I just wanted to get the obvious question about whether it was tested properly out of the way!
Given the BG guy has written "power trips out" which is useless without saying what trips (presumably the RCD), I wouldn't be sure they had an eye for precision.