Are people moving away from rings

MG201 · Jan 20, 2019

hi all I’m just wondering are the forum members moving away from doing ring circuits and doing radials instead ? I have been reading that this may be the way industry is going wether this is to aid in the introduction of AFDDs I don’t know , obviously AFDDs won’t work in rings, that’s why I recon radials will have to be standard before AFDDs are used.
There will no doughy be some sparks who install AFDDs on rings which will defeat the purpose of them , ( if I’m right )
Should all new builds now be installing radials ??

Deleted member 26818 · Jan 27, 2019

Mike Johnson said:
In that case you could have worded your original post better, it looks like one of those SA comments you get on here when someone ask's for advice.

Yep, I probably should have done.
Any chance of an answer to my question?

Silly Sausage · Jan 27, 2019

Mike Johnson said:
Most of the special circuits, that should be on an individual DP CB if I can remember them all are:
Washing Machine
Tumble Dryer
Oven
Hob
Dish Washer
Water Heater
UFH
Fridge On separate RCD
Freezer On separate RCD
Alarms
Outside dependancies
Garage
Electric heating inc ASHP
Towel Rails
Extract Fans
Max of eight sockets on 1.5mm protected by 16A
Max of twelve sockets on 2.5mm protected by 20A
No ring mains allowed
All lighting to have an earth running to them even if not used
Everything metal has to be earthed even if built into the walls
No T & E allowed all cables must be double insulated and of the same cross section
That's all I can think of at the moment, but if anyone is interested PM me and I can direct to the best information source.

Most of the first 15 items on that list is over engineering and a complete waste of resources and money.

Deleted member 26818 · Jan 27, 2019

If it’s anything like the US, dryers are often 20A.

Mike Johnson · Jan 28, 2019

Archy Styrigg said:
Most of the first 15 items on that list is over engineering and a complete waste of resources and money.

Well that's certainly one individual's opinion.

Pete999 · Jan 28, 2019

Mike Johnson said:
Most of the special circuits, that should be on an individual DP CB if I can remember them all are:
Washing Machine
Tumble Dryer
Oven
Hob
Dish Washer
Water Heater
UFH
Fridge On separate RCD
Freezer On separate RCD
Alarms
Outside dependancies
Garage
Electric heating inc ASHP
Towel Rails
Extract Fans
Max of eight sockets on 1.5mm protected by 16A
Max of twelve sockets on 2.5mm protected by 20A
No ring mains allowed
All lighting to have an earth running to them even if not used
Everything metal has to be earthed even if built into the walls
No T & E allowed all cables must be double insulated and of the same cross section
That's all I can think of at the moment, but if anyone is interested PM me and I can direct to the best information source.

Need a big CU to fit all those DPCBs Mike

Mike Johnson · Jan 28, 2019

[ElectriciansForums.net] Are people moving away from rings

Certainly do.

Pete999 · Jan 28, 2019

Mike Johnson said:
View attachment 47445

Certainly do.

Don't you think you are over complicating things a bit Mike?

telectrix · Jan 28, 2019

seen smaller boards running factories.
1980's houses were getting utility rooms
1990's " " " en suite bathrooms
2010's " are " plant rooms.

next "progression" might be nuclear generators in the attic for all power, heat,cooling, cooking etc.

might even be able to find a space to sit and watch the telly.

Mike Johnson · Jan 28, 2019

Pete999 said:
Don't you think you are over complicating things a bit Mike?

Not me, that's the EU regulations for you, but if you look closely you will see the board is three phase.

Pete999 · Jan 28, 2019

Mike Johnson said:
Not me, that's the EU regulations for you, but if you look closely you will see the board is three phase.

We don't have Polyphase supplies in most domestic dwellings Mike. Can't see what you are getting at?

Mike Johnson · Jan 28, 2019

The start of my posts on this thread was concerning the use of of DP RCD's in the EU and that rings aren't used, also note that three phase is common on domestic supplies, especially in more rural areas.

Toneyz · Jan 28, 2019

For what I have seen in the E.U. consumer units have an RCD as the main switch and D.P MCB's so if there is an N-E fault you turn off the C.B wherein the UK if we have an N-E fault you need to find the fault.

Mike Johnson · Jan 31, 2019

Narrows down the fault finding exercise considerably, having only one circuit to check, so at least one plus point.

Lucien Nunes · Jan 31, 2019

I think the point is that when you abandon the diversity of 32A socket-outlet circuits (note: 32A but not specifically rings) you end up with many more circuits because each circuit may only be able to supply one appliance. Our house had one ring serving the main living areas including the whole kitchen with washing machine, dishwasher, tumble dryer, microwave, all portable cooking appliances etc. The 30A fuse never blew in 25 years and when replaced by a 30A MCB that never tripped. It would take four or five 20A circuits to give the same flexibility.

I do like DP or perhaps better SPSN MCBs for DP isolation. Europeans were often ahead of us in these things. Old Dutch fuse boxes (of which I have a few) that use Diazed bottle fuses, have a DP isolator for each outgoing circuit as standard, so they were onto this even before MCBs.

Selfmade · Jan 31, 2019

I used to think rings would gradually be replaced by radials. My tutor for one was dead against rings. But I can't see it happening now - replacing one ring with probably several radials when each extra circuit means an extra £200+ on an AFDD. 32A radials? Maybe, if they start making sockets with terminals that will accept two or three 6mm2 conductors!