New rewire and fuse board - views on work.

Debrahim · Jan 7, 2023

Hi,

I’d appreciate views on the fuse board.

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Image B15507-C3-D860-4-B7-C-B670-7-C9332043-AB4 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

It’s been completely rewired and I’m unhappy with the quality.

I’ve messaged him about it and described the board as a complete mess, and poor workmanship ship. For entry for the 25mm cables and 16mm tails he used the knock out but didn’t bother using the plastic cable holder - which is a couple of quid.

Also with the cables coming in through the back, there is no plastic or anything so the metal of the board could rub against the metal of the board.

his reply is below

a. - there is a reason why cables shouldn't be perfectly arrange in the fuse box because it could create electromagnetic field resulting in humming sound in the fuse box- you would probably think that's ridiculous ! But it's a fact!

Quite frankly I’m shocked, would you be happy with the work, paying over 4k? And supplying the board all second fix items etc? So basically 5k?

He has also created 5 additional lighting circuits downstairs, I live in a three bed terraced house.

1) for 6 down lights in a 2.5m x 2m room.
2) just the ground hallway light.
3) the lounge dinner, two lights and two wall lights.
4) a porch light and floodlight.
5) under stairs light simply 2 lights.

His reply is that it is is better… but then it’s all on a dual rcd so it doesn’t really help in my opinion.

We agreed the whole of downstairs on a circuit except the hallway on a separate one. (He said that was best practice.

I’ve attached photos and the pieces that I believe should go there. One is too big.

nicebutdim · Jan 7, 2023

westward10 said:
You purchased it, he should not have fitted it.

Would you refuse to fit a Hager dual RCD board if the customer specifically asked you to?

Debrahim · Jan 7, 2023

Dustydazzler said:
The job isn't FINSIHSED until you get your EIC (certificate) and YOU are 100% with the JOB you were quoted for. IF you are NOT happy then DONT PAY

He emailed me the day he "finished" at 11.36pm, demanding payment by the next morning. Then texted me after midnight, as I informed him at 4pm just after he left, one of the lights was not working demanding the balance minus a grand.

I've outright refused to pay, but today I ordered the parts, namely for the 25mm and 16mm earth so kiddies can't get their hands in, and for the knockouts in the back which makes it safe, i.e plastic. Namely Hager VM02CE Hager VM02CE Insulated Cable Entry Plate for Design 10, 30 & 50 Consumer Units - https://www.consumerunitworld.co.uk/hager-vm02ce-insulated-cable-entry-plate-3331-p.asp

and the tails entry kit: Meter Tail Entry Cable Protector Plate Open (Pack of 10) - https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/4658785-meter-tail-entry-cable-protector-plate-open?gclid=Cj0KCQiAzeSdBhC4ARIsACj36uFfeHL5fAIyG94Rz4rVnmbxuvNpj-aajolHZS45ulNG3JzSKA7YXG8aAhh6EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Debrahim · Jan 7, 2023

nicebutdim said:
Would you refuse to fit a Hager dual RCD board if the customer specifically asked you to?

Just to add the box was sealed, and came from TLC, and he approved it, told me which breakers etc to order.

Dustydazzler · Jan 7, 2023

Debrahim said:
Just to add the box was sealed, and came from TLC, and he approved it, told me which breakers etc to order.

No issue with this approach

Although I would have tried my best to persuade you to go for a full Rcbo board , for the extra 90-100 quid on materials it is a far superior set up

westward10 · Jan 7, 2023

nicebutdim said:
Would you refuse to fit a Hager dual RCD board if the customer specifically asked you to?

Yes the Regulations do not advise them for residential properties.

Debrahim · Jan 7, 2023

littlespark said:
This is the question.

Apart from being a little untidy, does the work conform to BS7671. (good workmanship not withstanding)

Was a certificate issued would be the more important question.

Can someone confirm, if there is a code number under BS standards that the work needs to be good workmanship.

He has said I can complain to the NICEIC and they will tell me there is nothing wrong.

He is withholding the certificate until I pay in full. In such circumstances what can I do? Effectively being told if I don't pay up - then tough,

As above i've ordered the bits above, for him to fit - and if he was going to organise tidying up the board then I was going to pay him in full get my cert and call it a day.

Looking at the contract, unfortunately despite discussing it, and when posting on my builder asking for a full rewire, I forgot to include the light under the stairs, and the socket. Hence two circuits being old.

nicebutdim · Jan 7, 2023

westward10 said:
Yes the Regulations do not advise them for residential properties.

I understand that, and the reasons why, but if a customer specifically requested fitment of a quality dual RCD board, I can't see any reason not to.

I'd certainly put forth a persuasive argument in favour of an alternative set up, but can't think of any reason why one shouldn't be fitted at a customer's request.

westward10 · Jan 7, 2023

nicebutdim said:
I understand that, and the reasons why, but if a customer specifically requested fitment of a quality dual RCD board, I can't see any reason not to.

I'd certainly put forth a persuasive argument in favour of an alternative set up, but can't think of any reason why one shouldn't be fitted at a customer's request.

You are likely to need to list it as a departure something you really don't want to be doing, see Regulation 531.3.2 (ii). What the customer wants should not sway you from what is correct.

Debrahim · Jan 7, 2023

nicebutdim said:
I understand that, and the reasons why, but if a customer specifically requested fitment of a quality dual RCD board, I can't see any reason not to.

I'd certainly put forth a persuasive argument in favour of an alternative set up, but can't think of any reason why one shouldn't be fitted at a customer's request.

Hold on, his quote was to supply and fit a dual RCD fuse board made by contactum (spelling). His quote was never RCBO etc.

timhoward · Jan 7, 2023

SJD said:
It is difficult to see, but my understanding is the two top connections of the SPD are Earth, and while I can see they are linked, I can't actually see any earth cable connecting them to the earth terminal.

@westward10 my understanding is that they look like this - and I'd expect to see some glimpse of the CPC .

[ElectriciansForums.net] New rewire and fuse board - views on work.

Debrahim said:
You say dual rcd is not recommended. If im honest I didn’t want to spend the money on a rcbo- there are 14 circuits.

That wasn't the wisest move really.

Debrahim said:
To clarify he wanted to supply and fit some crap board.

What did he want to fit? Was it Fusebox? Any RCBO board would have been better.
If you supplied the board how did he end up with exactly the right number of B6 breakers for lighting unless you also knew the plan in advance?

nicebutdim said:
I understand that, and the reasons why, but if a customer specifically requested fitment of a quality dual RCD board, I can't see any reason not to.

The main reason is that the regs encourage us to design to limit cumulative earth leakage and specifically tell us to consider RCBO's in residential premises. (Section 314 and section 531.3.2 )

Debrahim · Jan 7, 2023

westward10 said:
Yes the Regulations do not advise them for residential properties.

Was he incorrect in then specifying and quoting for a dual rcd board from contactum (spelling). I merely wanted a better brand.

nicebutdim · Jan 7, 2023

Debrahim said:
Can someone confirm, if there is a code number under BS standards that the work needs to be good workmanship.

The problem is defining what constitutes good workmanship. Untidyness is less than ideal, but not problematic in itself.

A small amount of sealant and some grommet strip solves the tails issue and a few clips to provide adequate support on their route up to the board (if not already in place). It's difficult to discern other issues from the image provided.

nicebutdim · Jan 7, 2023

Debrahim said:
Hold on, his quote was to supply and fit a dual RCD fuse board made by contactum (spelling). His quote was never RCBO etc.

I can only comment on what you've posted and in post #6 you state "If im honest I didn’t want to spend the money on a rcbo- there are 14 circuits".

nicebutdim · Jan 7, 2023

Debrahim said:
Was he incorrect in then specifying and quoting for a dual rcd board from contactum (spelling). I merely wanted a better brand.

The general consensus will be that dual RCD boards should be avoided and I'd fully agree with that.

It's worth pointing out that Contactum is not a cr*p brand as per your previous statement. Contactum or Hager would have been perfectly good options with RCBOs in place of the current dual RCDs, although as @timhoward points out CP Fusebox provide a very good value alternative.

nicebutdim · Jan 7, 2023

westward10 said:
You are likely to need to list it as a departure something you really don't want to be doing, see Regulation 531.3.2 (ii). What the customer wants should not sway you from what is correct.

I'm fairly intransigent and can't imagine being swayed on the matter by a customer, but wanted to play devil's advocate.

New rewire and fuse board - views on work.

Debrahim

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