New rewire and fuse board - views on work.

[Debrahim]

Hi,

I’d appreciate views on the fuse board.

B15507-C3-D860-4-B7-C-B670-7-C9332043-AB4 hosted at ImgBB

Image B15507-C3-D860-4-B7-C-B670-7-C9332043-AB4 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

It’s been completely rewired and I’m unhappy with the quality.

I’ve messaged him about it and described the board as a complete mess, and poor workmanship ship. For entry for the 25mm cables and 16mm tails he used the knock out but didn’t bother using the plastic cable holder - which is a couple of quid.

Also with the cables coming in through the back, there is no plastic or anything so the metal of the board could rub against the metal of the board.

his reply is below

a. - there is a reason why cables shouldn't be perfectly arrange in the fuse box because it could create electromagnetic field resulting in humming sound in the fuse box- you would probably think that's ridiculous ! But it's a fact!


Quite frankly I’m shocked, would you be happy with the work, paying over 4k? And supplying the board all second fix items etc? So basically 5k?

He has also created 5 additional lighting circuits downstairs, I live in a three bed terraced house.

1) for 6 down lights in a 2.5m x 2m room.
2) just the ground hallway light.
3) the lounge dinner, two lights and two wall lights.
4) a porch light and floodlight.
5) under stairs light simply 2 lights.

His reply is that it is is better… but then it’s all on a dual rcd so it doesn’t really help in my opinion.

We agreed the whole of downstairs on a circuit except the hallway on a separate one. (He said that was best practice.

I’ve attached photos and the pieces that I believe should go there. One is too big.

 

[Debrahim]

@westward10 my understanding is that they look like this - and I'd expect to see some glimpse of the CPC .
View attachment 105116


That wasn't the wisest move really.

What did he want to fit? Was it Fusebox? Any RCBO board would have been better.
If you supplied the board how did he end up with exactly the right number of B6 breakers for lighting unless you also knew the plan in advance?

The main reason is that the regs encourage us to design to limit cumulative earth leakage and specifically tell us to consider RCBO's in residential premises. (Section 314 and section 531.3.2 )

If he had recommended, a RCBO and the reasons for it, i'd have it done. His quote states "1. Supply and Installation of x 1 Dual RCD Consumer unit with SPD' He told me the brand was contactum. I wanted Hager or schneider.

As to the B6 breakers, as I bought a much bigger board I knew there would be gaps. Also I wasn't sure if each smoke detector needs its only 6 amp breaker so thought best to buy extra of those. They are only 3 pounds and a blank is over` £1. I thought it wise to buy those, but I also have 5 extra mcb's not fitted which I can take a photo of, a 6, 16, 20, 20, 32. So I bought a mixture.

I have it in writing, that the plan is to have a ground, 1st floor, and loft where the circuits are 32 amp, and lighting is 6.
I asked about the smoke detectors running off the 6 amp for the lighting, and was told it will be on a "separate circuit from the consumer unit not from the light".

Well it is connected to the same circuit breaker that does the kitchen lights.

 

[Debrahim]

The general consensus will be that dual RCD boards should be avoided and I'd fully agree with that.

It's worth pointing out that Contactum is not a cr*p brand as per your previous statement. Contactum or Hager would have been perfectly good options with RCBOs in place of the current dual RCDs, although as @timhoward points out CP Fusebox provide a very good value alternative.

Fair enough - every electrician I asked said they wouldn't go near contactum, and I already had a Hager so thought it makes sense. Secondly where do you keep getting RCBO's from? The quote was for a dual RCD board. RCBO's were never mentioned, perhaps if I had been told the benefits I would have bought them.

 

[nicebutdim]

If he had recommended, a RCBO and the reasons for it, i'd have it done. His quote states "1. Supply and Installation of x 1 Dual RCD Consumer unit with SPD' He told me the brand was contactum. I wanted Hager or schneider.

As to the B6 breakers, as I bought a much bigger board I knew there would be gaps. Also I wasn't sure if each smoke detector needs its only 6 amp breaker so thought best to buy extra of those. They are only 3 pounds and a blank is over` £1. I thought it wise to buy those, but I also have 5 extra mcb's not fitted which I can take a photo of, a 6, 16, 20, 20, 32. So I bought a mixture.

I have it in writing, that the plan is to have a ground, 1st floor, and loft where the circuits are 32 amp, and lighting is 6.
I asked about the smoke detectors running off the 6 amp for the lighting, and was told it will be on a "separate circuit from the consumer unit not from the light".

Well it is connected to the same circuit breaker that does the kitchen lights.

The above is one of many reasons why a lot of electricians insist upon supplying materials - or at the very least writing a comprehensive list.

Your new board is not what many would recommend, for reasons previously outlined, but having a dual RCD board doens't present any inherent danger. It can be argued that such boards should no longer be fitted, and I'd be the first to argue that very point, but changing it again will present significant cost and this would be borne by you as the board was your choice.

Provided the wiring in your home is good, and connections sound, the risk of problems should be exceptionally low and it might be best to get any real issues resolved and chalk the rest up to experience. I doubt you'll be using this electrician again, but in future would look for word of mouth recommendations or ask for someone local on a specialist forum like this one.

 

[timhoward]

Was he incorrect in then specifying and quoting for a dual rcd board from contactum (spelling). I merely wanted a better brand.

It's a slightly subjective one. "RCDs shall be selected and the circuits subdivided in such a way that any earth leakage current likely to occur during normal operation of the connected load will not cause unwanted tripping of the device"
One might argue that stacking 8 (or 7 and a spare?) circuits on a single RCD is pushing it a bit.
On the other hand if he measured the normal leakage current as <=9ma then he's complied with a further ident of the same reg.

I think you've had good advice already. It's not neat and tidy, it could use some cable restraint, and wiser decisions could have been made laying out the board. They look like Type A RCD's, it has SPD protection and it's a decent brand.

It sounds as though you have had an almost complete rewire for a pretty decent price for London.
The smoke alarm setup is probably in fact a good idea as if that circuit trips you will know about it as it is also feeding lighting.

I actually can't see an NICEIC complaint getting far with this one, we've seen much worse on here and their first response will be to ask you to put your complaints in writing to the sparks anyway. They will only get involved (and reluctantly) if relationships completely break down or he refuses to address your complaint.
I'd suggest a civil conversation with him to request he tidies up a bit, and double check there's a CPC wire in the SPD.

 

[nicebutdim]

Fair enough - every electrician I asked said they wouldn't go near contactum, and I already had a Hager so thought it makes sense. Secondly where do you keep getting RCBO's from? The quote was for a dual RCD board. RCBO's were never mentioned, perhaps if I had been told the benefits I would have bought them.

I can't think of any reason why they might make such a statement or why you'd heed their advice about boards, while not having them work in your home. Certainly not my first choice of board, but that's not down to quality - as it happens, there's a Contactum board less than 6 feet from me as I type.

 

[Debrahim]

No issue with this approach

Although I would have tried my best to persuade you to go for a full Rcbo board , for the extra 90-100 quid on materials it is a far superior set up

Hi Dusty, If I had known that they are superior and advised I'd have gone for it. The board discussion was only after the

The above is one of many reasons why a lot of electricians insist upon supplying materials - or at the very least writing a comprehensive list.

Your new board is not what many would recommend, for reasons previously outlined, but having a dual RCD board doens't present any inherent danger. It can be argued that such boards should no longer be fitted, and I'd be the first to argue that very point, but changing it again will present significant cost and this would be borne by you as the board was your choice.

Provided the wiring in your home is good, and connections sound, the risk of problems should be exceptionally low and it might be best to get any real issues resolved and chalk the rest up to experience. I doubt you'll be using this electrician again, but in future would look for word of mouth recommendations or ask for someone local on a specialist forum like this one.

Again someone not reading - he was going to supply and fit a dual RCD board. All I did was change brand.

 

[nicebutdim]

Again someone not reading - he was going to supply and fit a dual RCD board. All I did was change brand.

I understand that and have already addressed the point - what I went on to point out is why many electricians insist upon supplying materials. That also benefits the customer as their electrician is responsible if any components are subsequently found to be unsuitable or should they fail while under warranty.

If your electrician had supplied the board, there might have been an argument that it doesn't meet current requirements, with you only having to bear any difference in cost. As things stand, while you still have a valid argument against this dual RCD set up, the cost of new materials would be down to you. As such, my advice was to get the small issues sorted and not worry about RCBOs.

 

[Dave OCD]

Here's a picture of a Fusebox CU with compact RCBOs recently installed by me , this wouldn't cost an awful lot more than the dual RCD Hager board you specified and is good quality. I think how a CU is fitted/connected up gives a fair idea of an electricians attitude to their work and any decent Electrical Tradesperson would produce something like this.

 

[Debrahim]

It's a slightly subjective one. "RCDs shall be selected and the circuits subdivided in such a way that any earth leakage current likely to occur during normal operation of the connected load will not cause unwanted tripping of the device"
One might argue that stacking 8 (or 7 and a spare?) circuits on a single RCD is pushing it a bit.
On the other hand if he measured the normal leakage current as <=9ma then he's complied with a further ident of the same reg.

I think you've had good advice already. It's not neat and tidy, it could use some cable restraint, and wiser decisions could have been made laying out the board. They look like Type A RCD's, it has SPD protection and it's a decent brand.

It sounds as though you have had an almost complete rewire for a pretty decent price for London.
The smoke alarm setup is probably in fact a good idea as if that circuit trips you will know about it as it is also feeding lighting.

I actually can't see an NICEIC complaint getting far with this one, we've seen much worse on here and their first response will be to ask you to put your complaints in writing to the sparks anyway. They will only get involved (and reluctantly) if relationships completely break down or he refuses to address your complaint.
I'd suggest a civil conversation with him to request he tidies up a bit, and double check there's a CPC wire in the SPD.

Thank you,
I'm afraid what the NICEIC say, and what the law is, may well be completely different. The latter, however I am fully aware of. Why would I complain to a body that he pays hundreds of pounds to a year?

I am happy with it being tidied up, etc - but the lie for it being such a mess is laughable. He must think I am an idiot.

Prompted by the questions regarding the red and black wires, - there was a specific charge to run a new feed to the light on the second floor, likewise with the sockets. However they are red and black and it is clear therefore it has not been completed.

I am just grateful that I have the other fuse board providing for my kitchen. It is clear just looking at it, the labels, the fact the wires are put together before it comes into the fuse board that it was done by someone who cares. The builders subcontracted them in, perhaps I should have looked for the cert and their details, but instead relied on one of the many review websites.

I've never been in such a position before and have paid all the other trades as agreed and on time. The fact now he hasn't done work as part on the contract puts me in a very difficult place.

 

[Debrahim]

Here's a picture of a Fusebox CU with compact RCBOs recently installed by me , this wouldn't cost an awful lot more than the dual RCD Hager board you specified and is good quality. I think how a CU is fitted/connected up gives a fair idea of an electricians attitude to their work and any decent Electrical Tradesperson would produce something like this.

I think you are defo right. Part of me thinks whether I should leave it be, or whether I should get a competent spark to rip it out, and fit a new one with RCBO's.

Funny enough the picture of the fuseboard he installed on his my builder account is pretty much faultless.

 

[westward10]

When it comes to judging someone #53 says it all and the picture he shows on My Builder probably wasn't something he had done.

 

[Welchyboy1]

I understand that, and the reasons why, but if a customer specifically requested fitment of a quality dual RCD board, I can't see any reason not to.

I'd certainly put forth a persuasive argument in favour of an alternative set up, but can't think of any reason why one shouldn't be fitted at a customer's request.

I supply two quotes when quoting a board, one for dual rcd, one for full rcbo, with a strong recommendation to fit the rcbo board and with the continuing drop in rcbo costs this is getting an easier argument to win in most cases

I would say I get about 60% go with the rcbo board( when it’s their own property mostly)

for rentals they always seem to go with the cheapest option, even though I explain it’s potentially a false economy

I earn the same profit to fit either, I would not like to risk losing potentially 40% of the work by refusing to fit a dual rcd board, that’s their choice

 

[cliffed]

Here's a picture of a Fusebox CU with compact RCBOs recently installed by me , this wouldn't cost an awful lot more than the dual RCD Hager board you specified and is good quality. I think how a CU is fitted/connected up gives a fair idea of an electricians attitude to their work and any decent Electrical Tradesperson would produce something like this.

Great install

 

[cliffed]

Agree with all comments, usually the client will have no idea what’s happening inside the DB..& yes it’s very untidy..the cables entering the DB will need trunking.
Also like others have said if a Certificate been issued then the responsibility lies with that person, not an ideal situation, it’s really your Call.. obviously the relationship between you & the Sparks are a bit “tainted“ & who can blame you, a meeting with him maybe the option & a tidy up of items you are concerned of… good luck..

 

[buzzlightyear]

I’m refusing to pay him the final payment - he is going to come around and sort it.

It should have been done in the begging
What was his company called heniz electrical, I would not pay him.