Fixed Appliances--Again-No doubt

sparkie_Al · Mar 26, 2012

Hi, I have done the 2377-22, but as an old git I still feel that some fixed appliances do not come under the umbrella of PAT testing. Most test machines do their calculations etc based around the 13amp cartridge fuse, but cookers are generally 30amp, or 45amp, so to me they surely shouldnt come under PAT testing.? Using MFT for earth bond and IR should suffice anyway, as I know that every appliance connected to the fixed wiring is supposed to be tested. The Shower however...doesnot, nor it would seem would Nightstorage heaters, so there is a split already.
When the Pat tester was first let loose on the fixed wiring, I remember loads of boiler circuit boards having to be replaced.

I am sure this subject has come up before, but searching "fixed appliance" did not bring me anything up, so sorry if I am repeating an old theme.

Adam W · Mar 26, 2012

Appliances need to be tested whether there is a plug on the end or a FCU.
The person doing the testing needs to be competent to disconnect the appliance for testing.

SirKit Breaker · Mar 26, 2012

Every piece of kit, that is not part of the fixed wiring, needs Inspection and Test, in order to comply with the Electricity at Work Regs 1989. The fuse rating has no relevance whatsoever, other than it needs to be the correct rating for the appliance, or 3a up to 700w, 13a above 700w, as per the current code of practice.

Cheers............Howard

darrens1973 · Mar 27, 2012

have you guys read the guidance notes on PAT Testing, a visual will suffice on fixed appliances for circa 5 years if it has been PAT Tested, so its not black and white as you suggest, take a view on site, if you have PAT Test records that are under 5 years old you can do a visual, how you get a modern PAT Tester to print a label for a visual is another matter !!!

UNG · Mar 27, 2012

sparkie_Al said:
Hi, I have done the 2377-22, but as an old git I still feel that some fixed appliances do not come under the umbrella of PAT testing. Most test machines do their calculations etc based around the 13amp cartridge fuse, but cookers are generally 30amp, or 45amp, so to me they surely shouldnt come under PAT testing.? Using MFT for earth bond and IR should suffice anyway, as I know that every appliance connected to the fixed wiring is supposed to be tested. The Shower however...doesnot, nor it would seem would Nightstorage heaters, so there is a split already.
When the Pat tester was first let loose on the fixed wiring, I remember loads of boiler circuit boards having to be replaced.

I am sure this subject has come up before, but searching "fixed appliance" did not bring me anything up, so sorry if I am repeating an old theme.

I wonder what you expect fixed appliances to come under for testing and inspecting purposes

All appliances fixed or portable (including showers and storage heaters) fall in the category of "In Service Electrical Equipment" and therefore should be inspected and tested accordingly. The IEE produce a Code Of Practice for In Service Electrical Equipment Inspection and Testing which may be worth looking at

If a PAT tester causes damage to equipment then that only proves incompetence and a lack of understanding of the equipment being tested. This is just another example of what is classed as competent

Adam W · Mar 27, 2012

UNG said:
I wonder what you expect fixed appliances to come under for testing and inspecting purposes

All appliances fixed or portable (including showers and storage heaters) fall in the category of "In Service Electrical Equipment" and therefore should be inspected and tested accordingly. The IEE produce a Code Of Practice for In Service Electrical Equipment Inspection and Testing which may be worth looking at

If a PAT tester causes damage to equipment then that only proves incompetence and a lack of understanding of the equipment being tested. This is just another example of what is classed as competent

There are a few on here who will try telling you that testing the fixed appliances is the responsibility of "somebody else" - not the 'PAT tester' because the P is for portable and if it's fixed to the wall it isn't portable.
I remember someone asking about how to expand from PAT testing into "FAT testing". If I were a customer I'd probably want to say "just test everything" rather than having to get a PAT tester to test the portable appliances, a "FAT tester" to test the fixed appliances, and then an electrician to test the fixed wiring, then hoping they overlap properly.

Darkwood · Mar 27, 2012

look at this from insurance angle, you do an electrical inspection you dont test the cooker or storage heaters but only to the power point, you do a PAT test you only do the portable stuff so when will items like cookers, instantaneous heaters etc ever get inspected, they have just as much potential to kill so need to be included in the PAT .... if you tell a company im not testing the wall mounted convector heater because it not portable and then 2months later it kills someone you may find your public liability been dipped into because you implied that it isnt part of the test, i did the latest PAT course and fixed equipment fall under the criteria for testing thus shunning these items or ignoring them may dig yourself a big hole one day.

sparkie_Al · Mar 27, 2012

Thanks for replies, so far.
The instructor/lecturer said that Showers and Nightstorage heaters were the exception, which is why I asked the question.
It appeared to me that some appliances were more "in service" than others

cbw · Mar 27, 2012

[ElectriciansForums.net] Fixed Appliances--Again-No doubt

View attachment jpg061.pdfBefore you all start arguing over this AGAIN....... here is what the IEE code of practice states......
.
.
.

oldtimer · Mar 28, 2012

Also it is to do with terminology ie PAT or Portable Appliance Testing should not be used it should be In-Service Inspection & Testing of Electrical Equipment. and this does apply to fixed equipment as I just completed my 2377 before they split it up into 2 parts and the college course was titled ISI&TEE formally PAT testing.
During the course there was a discussion with the tutor ie what is portable and what is not and he put it this way the fixed wiring is covered via a EICR and everything else is covered by ISI&TEE and this include fixed appliances including cookers and storage heater and even extract fans.

Although he did concede that people are applying the Portable only to their approuch to it but he did say look for changes in the middle of next year (June-12) as there will be a new roll out to explain why 2377 is being broken up to 2 and maybe 3 parts plus a difinitive statement that this does include fixed appliances so there will be no more excuses.

Part 1 is testing
Part 2 is managing
Part 3 is planning

Marnik · Mar 28, 2012

Agree with Oldtimer; PAT Testing terminology is wrong ; what comes under the scope of so called PAT testing?
1; Portable appliances
2; Handheld appliances
3; Movable appliances
4; Stationary/Movible appliances

Which means, basically everything that is connected to the installation.
I do both EICR and PAT testing
When doing fixed wiring testing, no appliances are tested.So they have to be tested under PAT.

Unfortunately there is still no proper guidance or regulation on this!!!!

oldtimer · Mar 28, 2012

Marnik said:
Agree with Oldtimer; PAT Testing terminology is wrong ; what comes under the scope of so called PAT testing?
1; Portable appliances
2; Handheld appliances
3; Movable appliances
4; Stationary/Movible appliances

Which means, basically everything that is connected to the installation.
I do both EICR and PAT testing
When doing fixed wiring testing, no appliances are tested.So they have to be tested under PAT. No should be tested under ISI&TEE

Unfortunately there is still no proper guidance or regulation on this!!!!

Yep I agree we do need some body to step up to the plate but my feelings are confusion is ok and suits some people

Marnik · Mar 28, 2012

NIC not interested;asked the inspector last week !!!!

cbw · Mar 28, 2012

I dont understand what you mean by "no proper guidance"

I have attached a copy of the IEE code of practice that states in black and white what is to be tested??????

Struggle to understand how people are justifying doing half a job?

Silly Sausage · Mar 28, 2012

cbw said:
I dont understand what you mean by "no proper guidance"

I have attached a copy of the IEE code of practice that states in black and white what is to be tested??????

Struggle to understand how people are justifying doing half a job?

Because it's upside down!

Fixed Appliances--Again-No doubt

sparkie_Al

Adam W

SirKit Breaker

darrens1973

UNG

-

Adam W

Darkwood

sparkie_Al

cbw

-

oldtimer

Marnik

-

oldtimer

Marnik

-

cbw

-

Silly Sausage

News and Offers from Sponsors

Similar threads

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

YOUR Unread Posts