100,000 new sparkies

[ricardo123]

I was reading somewhere a month or so ago that currently this year alone 100,000 new sparkies will be trained up. 95% of those will be trained on the short courses , i.e. the 4-8 week courses, the other 5% being apprentices or those completing NVQ's etc. Does this spell the end for Domestic Installers, same thing has been happening with Driving Instructing, .i.e. its become very hard to make a living from it(I mean purely Domestic Installers here). Any comments anyone?

 

[i=p/u]

switched turned off was it Einstein:tongue3:

 

[HappyHippyDad]

There is no way in this world anyone can learn in 4 weeks what it took us 4 years to learn.
What the government is doing is as criminal as cheating on their expenses.
what we are going to end up with is thousands of property's with substandard wiring causing fires and loss of life which in turn will reflect badly on all sparks not only the 4 week wonders.
After that there will be an outcry at us to undergo refresher courses every year and have to pay for them and it will be thousands ££££.
Then they will bring in new regulations and will reduce voltage to 110V to try and claim its safer like abroad so everyone will have to rewire everything for thousands ££££ more. All the time we as qualified well trained sparks are paying for the governments balls ups as always. Its about time we all stood together and started to rebel against what they are trying to do to our one time great trade before its too late.
We used to have the greatest electrical system in the world why should we lower our standards to come in to line with the EU it should be them moving up to come in to line with us !!!

Vj, no ones saying you can learn it all in 4 weeks, that would be ridiculous..... it took me 5 weeks!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Does an electrical NVQ cover mechanical engineering?
During my apprenticeship and for a long time afterwards I had electrical, mechanical, chemical engineering as well as process control to learn. And just to add a bit of interest (not) I had to do man management and industrial law to fill the odd spare minutes.
You can’t go on to a plant without knowing how and why it works. 90% of the jobs that come in will not be electrical, but you have to know how to get things going again. My tool kit has all sorts of useful electrical tools. You would often see me with a sledgehammer and 36” stillsons slung across my shoulders.

well, whatever`s needed to do the job then.....
like some would look in wonder at a `sledgehammer and 36" stillsons (i have both at home but at the end of the day....right tools for the job...(with a bit of brawn behind them of course)..lol...

 

[Silly Sausage]

well, whatever`s needed to do the job then.....
like some would look in wonder at a `sledgehammer and 36" stillsons (i have both at home but at the end of the day....right tools for the job...(with a bit of brawn behind them of course)..lol...

The only things to keep you safe living in the Leeds area!

 

[TaffyDuck]

Just to add that the quality of teaching at colleges who supposedly teach apprentices is lamentable. Just as bad if not worse than the Electrical Trainee courses.

It is all about experience. I have a unqualified labourer who worked for 10 years as an electricians mate who works on an ad-hoc basis for me. He would put any recently qualified 3/4 year spark just out of an apprenticeship to shame and for that matter many fully qualified electricians. Now if he would go on a Electrical Trainee course he`d be cracking.

On the flip side I am constantly getting calls to sort out the mess that a Electrical Trainee fresh out of the civil service is causing locally. he cant even wire a 2 way switch!

My point is this game has always been about experience that cannot be taught in a classroom. You need time at the pitface. But dont think that an apprenticeship is some kind of holy grail. There are plenty of muppets on both sides of the fence

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Just to add that the quality of teaching at colleges who supposedly teach apprentices is lamentable. Just as bad if not worse than the Electrical Trainee courses.

It is all about experience. I have a unqualified labourer who worked for 10 years as an electricians mate who works on an ad-hoc basis for me. He would put any recently qualified 3/4 year spark just out of an apprenticeship to shame and for that matter many fully qualified electricians. Now if he would go on a Electrical Trainee course he`d be cracking.

On the flip side I am constantly getting calls to sort out the mess that a Electrical Trainee fresh out of the civil service is causing locally. he cant even wire a 2 way switch!

My point is this game has always been about experience that cannot be taught in a classroom. You need time at the pitface. But dont think that an apprenticeship is some kind of holy grail. There are plenty of muppets on both sides of the fence

well if it were me...i wouldn`t go round saying too much about Mr. civil service and his `install`....you just keep going in after he`s gone..lol...££££
this is where Electrical Trainee are handy....they might even be called andy as well...

 

[imago]

My point is this game has always been about experience that cannot be taught in a classroom. You need time at the pitface. But dont think that an apprenticeship is some kind of holy grail. There are plenty of muppets on both sides of the fence

Ah but the modern way is paper qualifications, the more the merrier and so what if they're just bull. An NVQ demonstrates skills and abilities. What a load of crap. An NVQ demonstrates that someone is paid to read through a log book, make the odd comment on PPE and safe handling, then tell someone else that they can called themselves a qualified Electrician/plumber/taxidermist.

 

[UNG]

Having read through this thread it's interesting how the quick course lads perceive the quick training and the skills it gives them most at best have the ability to become "Domestic Installers" having completed it yet want the kudos of being a fully qualified spark. Granted it is difficult to get the all round electrical training that many on here have through apprenticeships or doing the career change thing with a number of years study and trying to get experience on weekends and days off to make the grade

To me this industry no longer does what it did when I started and I wonder what those that taught me the trade would make of it if they were still around. From the false promises made by training companies through to the various schemes assuming competence in return for money it could keep trading standards busy for years with the way it has become fragmented and sectorised with people claiming to be something they are clearly not

To use a piece from one of the posts

I wonder how many sparks on here started out doing diy electics in their own home reading books from the library and continued getting experience by doing work and are now highly skilled??

We don't produce highly skilled tackle anything sparks any more and certainly not from just reading a book it takes hands on experience and lots of it and there will still be new challenges and opportunities to learn something every day for many years

The driving force these days is for the powers that be to create base level quick spark courses and supplement them with not so specialist courses for what was once bread and butter work for a spark to create revenue streams for the parasitic training, examination and assessment companies that now exist to provide some legitimacy to what they are providing

Unfortunately this industry has been invaded by a lot of peripheral and unneeded companies who have changed it to what it is in the dash for cash from all those they can sucker in to spread the gospel that a short course spark has all the knowledge he needs to ply his trade as a spark and is as good as any body taking the longer routes in to the industry

 

[i=p/u]

it takes us longer cause we stupid:icon_bs:

 

[Big n Daft]

Having read through this thread it's interesting how the quick course lads perceive the quick training and the skills it gives them most at best have the ability to become "Domestic Installers" having completed it yet want the kudos of being a fully qualified spark. Granted it is difficult to get the all round electrical training that many on here have through apprenticeships or doing the career change thing with a number of years study and trying to get experience on weekends and days off to make the grade

To me this industry no longer does what it did when I started and I wonder what those that taught me the trade would make of it if they were still around. From the false promises made by training companies through to the various schemes assuming competence in return for money it could keep trading standards busy for years with the way it has become fragmented and sectorised with people claiming to be something they are clearly not

To use a piece from one of the posts


We don't produce highly skilled tackle anything sparks any more and certainly not from just reading a book it takes hands on experience and lots of it and there will still be new challenges and opportunities to learn something every day for many years

The driving force these days is for the powers that be to create base level quick spark courses and supplement them with not so specialist courses for what was once bread and butter work for a spark to create revenue streams for the parasitic training, examination and assessment companies that now exist to provide some legitimacy to what they are providing

Unfortunately this industry has been invaded by a lot of peripheral and unneeded companies who have changed it to what it is in the dash for cash from all those they can sucker in to spread the gospel that a short course spark has all the knowledge he needs to ply his trade as a spark and is as good as any body taking the longer routes in to the industry

That is it Ladies and gentlemen in a kind, well expressed manner. If it upsets DI's, tough!! That is what has happened and the parasites, aided by the DI's desparation to enter the the trade has caused it. This may sound harsh, but the DI is a cash cow because of his wont for more knowledge. When I put the rose tints on the DI is a glorified 3/4 year apprentice fed full of their own importance.
UNG is spot on

 

[Zeno]

Having read through this thread it's interesting how the quick course lads perceive the quick training and the skills it gives them most at best have the ability to become "Domestic Installers" having completed it yet want the kudos of being a fully qualified spark. Granted it is difficult to get the all round electrical training that many on here have through apprenticeships or doing the career change thing with a number of years study and trying to get experience on weekends and days off to make the grade

To me this industry no longer does what it did when I started and I wonder what those that taught me the trade would make of it if they were still around. From the false promises made by training companies through to the various schemes assuming competence in return for money it could keep trading standards busy for years with the way it has become fragmented and sectorised with people claiming to be something they are clearly not

To use a piece from one of the posts


We don't produce highly skilled tackle anything sparks any more and certainly not from just reading a book it takes hands on experience and lots of it and there will still be new challenges and opportunities to learn something every day for many years

The driving force these days is for the powers that be to create base level quick spark courses and supplement them with not so specialist courses for what was once bread and butter work for a spark to create revenue streams for the parasitic training, examination and assessment companies that now exist to provide some legitimacy to what they are providing

Unfortunately this industry has been invaded by a lot of peripheral and unneeded companies who have changed it to what it is in the dash for cash from all those they can sucker in to spread the gospel that a short course spark has all the knowledge he needs to ply his trade as a spark and is as good as any body taking the longer routes in to the industry

When you speak to many of the Employees of the Scams, they also agree with the above, even when common sense prevails in the Secret Committees, it is then overruled by those that skim the profit off for themselves.

 

[markc123]

Hello Buddy!

It is all about experience. I have a unqualified labourer who worked for 10 years as an electricians mate who works on an ad-hoc basis for me. He would put any recently qualified 3/4 year spark just out of an apprenticeship to shame and for that matter many fully qualified electricians. Now if he would go on a Electrical Trainee course he`d be cracking.

Without being disrepectful to your man...Yes, he could be brilliant with electrics and have a great understanding of the regs / do the work to a professional standard - but i still don't think it's any excuse to go on the Electrical Trainee course. If he's got the skills then he should go and get the proper qualifications. The Electrical Trainee is at best a joke, regardless of who takes it.

On the flip side I am constantly getting calls to sort out the mess that a Electrical Trainee fresh out of the civil service is causing locally. he cant even wire a 2 way switch!

My point is this game has always been about experience that cannot be taught in a classroom. You need time at the pitface. But dont think that an apprenticeship is some kind of holy grail.

I agree, experience cannot be taught in the classroom - every sparks is learning everyday, nobody is perfect. But the apprentership route / adult learner route is the correct way to go, and it's what everyone should be doing, yes - apprenterships are hard to come by, but it still doesn't stop anyone taking the 2330 route, and if they can't afford it - find another career. Regardless of what you say about college's theres valuable knowledge to learn in them - they cover all areas of the electrical industry for a reason. Not for a labourer / Electrical Trainee or w.e to be house-bashing and then think because he knows abit about electrics he knows everything (which does happen, more often than not)

There are plenty of muppets on both sides of the fence

Agreed. Muppet's everywhere you luck in this industry nowdays! It needs sorting, but i don't have the answers - not sure anyone can sort it now, too many webs have been sprung everywhere.

(everything i just said is just my opinion - im well aware that pretty much everything i said many might not agree with. Just putting my point accross buddy not having a go / saying what you've said is wrong)