100,000 new sparkies

[ricardo123]

I was reading somewhere a month or so ago that currently this year alone 100,000 new sparkies will be trained up. 95% of those will be trained on the short courses , i.e. the 4-8 week courses, the other 5% being apprentices or those completing NVQ's etc. Does this spell the end for Domestic Installers, same thing has been happening with Driving Instructing, .i.e. its become very hard to make a living from it(I mean purely Domestic Installers here). Any comments anyone?

 

[flyingsausage]

If you didnt get into an apprenticeship before you were 20 years old then as far as Im concerned you missed the boat, it sailed without you. .:boat:


No ammount of courses, fluffing or bluffing or 1000 word posts will make you an equal in my eyes.

Boydy :shocked3:

Well said Boydy

 

[Adam W]

Just commenting on your points comparing taxi drivers with time served tradesmen. among other things. That post has nothing to do with it. If you want to better yourself and 'qualify' properly, as it seems you have done, fair enough, good luck. If you want to waste your time and money doing it fast track, it's up to you. If you want to sit on your backside and expect things put on a plate......eat what's given.

It wasn't meant to be a direct comparison, but surely changing career to be a taxi driver isn't too different from changing career to be an electrician? You still need to know what you're doing such as how to drive, where you're going and what's happening in the local area; in London taxi drivers have to pass 'the knowledge' but is there really much difference between a taxi driver who has been doing it since they left school and one who until recently was an electrician? Obviously I couldn't just buy a taxi and go up to London without any knowledge of the local area, regardless of whether or not I've got a sat nav, but surely being able to pass 'the knowledge' would be enough proof that I know how to drive a taxi?
Same with electrics - approved electricians generally get paid the same regardless of age or how long they've been doing it, so why stipulate that someone must have been doing it since they left school? If you're paying a 60 year old electrician with 40 years' experience the same as a 30 year old electrician with 10 years experience, then why not pay a 60 year old electrician with 20 years experience the same as a 40 year old electrician with 20 years' experience, or for that matter a 60 year old electrician with 10 years' experience and a 40 year old electrician with 20 years' experience?

 

[Adam W]

I have no problem with an older person changing careers but I dont know how an older person can live on an apprentice pay rates for three or four years not to mention the gradual rise in rates untill they are fully qualified, not in this day and age.


I baulk at the thought of the number of deaths that could be caused by "15 week wonders", and the amount of people the may be ripped off by so called training companies

Surely that's up to them to figure out? They could be single, divorced with no children, have a partner who works, own their house outright, have money saved up, or even won the lottery.
I managed to work as a mate on £7.50 an hour when I was 25, so I don't see why others can't. Either that or they shouldn't be doing it - there's no substitute for on the job experience.

 

[Knobhead]

I notice everyone is concentrating on domestic, no one fancy going in to the industrial side?

It is one field where I would say an apprenticeship is required.

 

[flyingsausage]

It is much the same in the installation side of the industrial sector,there are plenty of men out their doing the 17th Edition and getting an IPAF ticket and calling themselves sparks,and not lasting a week on any job because they are not what they think they are.
Plus you need a spark to go round and fiix everything that they do.

 

[Adam W]

Is there any good reason why someone can't work as an adult trainee learning to be an industrial electrician?

 

[Knobhead]

Is there any good reason why someone can't work as an adult trainee learning to be an industrial electrician?

No reason what so ever.
But the training needs to be structured as an apprenticeship. I’m was really aiming this towards maintenance and fault finding not installation.
As FS said though, I’ve had more that my fair share of following up botched installation jobs when we’ve started commissioning trials. It wasn’t unusual for us to be a week behind schedule with having to put things right.

 

[Adam W]

Surely they would prove that by completing their NVQ3?
Or at least prove they'd worked in the industry long enough to know what they're doing.

 

[Stroppy]

If you didnt get into an apprenticeship before you were 20 years old then as far as Im concerned you missed the boat, it sailed without you. .:boat:

Well I'm 38 and four years into a 'slow track' apprenticeship, so I may as well give up now and move into my retirement home!

 

[Stroppy]

I have no problem with an older person changing careers but I dont know how an older person can live on an apprentice pay rates for three or four years not to mention the gradual rise in rates untill they are fully qualified, not in this day and age.

It is tough, now I can only manage two snowboarding holidays and a summer break per year. 6 days to go til Austria! http://countingdownto.com/countdown-page/show/Woolfie Tours Lech 2013 Snow-fest!|50f1f900|1

 

[Des 56]

Surely they would prove that by completing their NVQ3?
Or at least prove they'd worked in the industry long enough to know what they're doing.

If your still refering to industrial maintenance then there is no alternative whatsoever to on the job experience coupled with knowing your stuff and the tried and trusted apprenticeship(preferably at a young age) will get that person in a position where they can blosom into a maintenance spark,after quite a few more years may I say

I was trained as a maintenance spark many years ago,I was OK at my job, but concentrated on installation early on in my career

Nowadays I wouldn't dream of trying to pass myself off in the maintenance field having been left behind with the changes that have taken place
It would take a while working alongside competent others before their knowledge, coupled with my own training and experience would make it sensible
Someone with inadequate training would soon find themselves exposed when a factories production process was left idle for any period

This is one area where fast tracking would be akin to putting an operator of the Dodgems in the pilot set of an Airplane,there will be an accident or at the least a quick sacking

 

[Knobhead]

Surely they would prove that by completing their NVQ3?
Or at least prove they'd worked in the industry long enough to know what they're doing.

Does an electrical NVQ cover mechanical engineering?
During my apprenticeship and for a long time afterwards I had electrical, mechanical, chemical engineering as well as process control to learn. And just to add a bit of interest (not) I had to do man management and industrial law to fill the odd spare minutes.
You can’t go on to a plant without knowing how and why it works. 90% of the jobs that come in will not be electrical, but you have to know how to get things going again. My tool kit has all sorts of useful electrical tools. You would often see me with a sledgehammer and 36” stillsons slung across my shoulders.

 

[oldtimer]

Tony you make a very good point here between domestic and industrial that is poles apart skill and knowledge wise of course the 17 days and Electrical Trainee are aimed at domestic I myself worked with conduit trunking MICC with 3 phase distribution systems although we can bang on as much as we want but we need to make a Domestic electrician grade as a separate entity

 

[imago]

The industrial apprenticeships and subsequent on the job training cost hundreds of thousands of pounds to get a school leaver to a competant standard. The company hopes to recoupe that during the subsequent working life of the employee. Well that's what happened several decades ago. It's no longer possible for it to work in that way as most of the places which had the money and infrastructure to do it are long gone.

Hence the move to smaller scope areas of work for electricians. If Mrs Jones wants her CU changing she really doesn't give a monkey's if the person doing it can build a replica of spaghetti junction from one continuous length of galvanised conduit.

It's the same in most trades and professions now, since the demise of the big manufacturing plants there's no longer a requirement for, or budget to train, all rounders. Welcome to the age of the one trick pony.

 

[Knobhead]

Tony you make a very good point here between domestic and industrial that is poles apart skill and knowledge wise of course the 17 days and Electrical Trainee are aimed at domestic I myself worked with conduit trunking MICC with 3 phase distribution systems although we can bang on as much as we want but we need to make a Domestic electrician grade as a separate entity

The opportunity was there back in the 80’s. I was an E.E.P.T.U. convenor at the time (hence the industrial and employment law), there was uproar in the union and J.I.B. over designation. It fell flat on its face due to political correctness!