10mm bonding to copper and plastic install.

[Robo]

Im going to be doing a consumer unit change. There is already 10mm boding to gas and water pipes. However the customer has has some renovation work done to the plumbing.

So it starts off copper and then goes to plastic and then goes back to copper. Am i right in thinking i need to take a seperate 10mm bond to each copper pipe?? or??

 

[yellowvanman]

But the water pipes connected to the boiler would be bonded by the bond to the gas pipe?

 

[telectrix]

but with plumbers around, not to mention kitchen butchers, that gas bond could easily be cut/removed..............

 

[Deleted member 9648]

This is off topic though....the OP was asking about main bonding,not supplementary.........the purpose of main bonding is served by bonding at the point of entry, therefore the pipework beyond that point is irrelevant to the OP's question.
Supplementary bonding is a different matter entirely.

 

[Engineer54]

It is abundantly clear from your posts E54 that you do not understand the reasons for main bonding.

Of course i don't understand what i was fundamentally taught during my training and have been working with ever since all these years !!! ....Best you teach me then eh??

All this crap being spilled out, about me wanting to bond every last bit of metal in an installation, just means that you and others are only reading what you want see...

As far as i can see, what i have stated, is that if there is a short section of plastic pipe in a water pipe run, i would be inclined to bridge bond it. You and others seem to think that would be wrong for some reason, and would rather see a stub coming through the wall with a bond on it!!! Sorry for my inferred lack of knowledge on these things, but for the sake of a couple or so feet of bonding cable i would rather see the whole of that copper pipe installation bonded to the MET and not just the stub coming through the wall!!! ....I have NOT stated anywhere at any time that i would bond every isolated bit of copper pipe, as your suggesting, where plumbers have decided to use plastic over copper...

Your right that i don't take everything in the BRB as absolute gospel!! If i know i can achieve a better/superior result i will, and i certainly won't appologise for that. What's more i don't only work with BS, but with several other just as relevant codes and regulations, some sections of which, are only now just being adopted by forthcoming amendments to the Reg's....

Now if i come accross as being a little too blunt in my posts at times, you could well be right, and for that i will and do appologise. However they are not composed with intent or inferred intent to offend!!!

 

[Deleted member 26818]

As far as i can see, what i have stated, is that if there is a short section of plastic pipe in a water pipe run, i would be inclined to bridge bond it.

Why what purpose would it serve?

 

[malcolmsanford]

But the water pipes connected to the boiler would be bonded by the bond to the gas pipe?

I agree and in 16th where we bonded at the intakes, in a special location, ie location containing a shower or bathroom, where a pipe or metalwork was deemd to be an extraneous conductive part we had to supply supplementary bonding. That was due to lack of RCD protection

Now in the 17th where we can apply the 3 conditions of reg 701.415.2, 2 are covered by RCD protection and the 3rd main bonding, in that special location we can omit supplementary bonding. But if anyone of those conditions are not obtained we need to apply supplementary bonding.

I was just saying if the water was bonded at the intake, on the metal part, but as in this case went to plastic. I would check what the connections are at the boiler. If the water connection were copper I would test any pipework that was also copper, in the bathroom to make sure it was not an ECP, espicially if the bathroom had no RCD protection. As I would want to make sure that there was no potential introduced into the location

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Of course i don't understand what i was fundamentally taught during my training and have been working with ever since all these years !!! ....Best you teach me then eh??

All this crap being spilled out, about me wanting to bond every last bit of metal in an installation, just means that you and others are only reading what you want see...

As far as i can see, what i have stated, is that if there is a short section of plastic pipe in a water pipe run, i would be inclined to bridge bond it. You and others seem to think that would be wrong for some reason, and would rather see a stub coming through the wall with a bond on it!!! Sorry for my inferred lack of knowledge on these things, but for the sake of a couple or so feet of bonding cable i would rather see the whole of that copper pipe installation bonded to the MET and not just the stub coming through the wall!!! ....I have NOT stated anywhere at any time that i would bond every isolated bit of copper pipe, as your suggesting, where plumbers have decided to use plastic over copper...

Your right that i don't take everything in the BRB as absolute gospel!! If i know i can achieve a better/superior result i will, and i certainly won't appologise for that. What's more i don't only work with BS, but with several other just as relevant codes and regulations, some sections of which, are only now just being adopted by forthcoming amendments to the Reg's....

Now if i come accross as being a little too blunt in my posts at times, you could well be right, and for that i will and do appologise. However they are not composed with intent or inferred intent to offend!!!

I only take exception to misleading information posted on this forum....The fact is that the question from the OP referred to main bonding,the sole purpose of main bonding is achieved by bonding at the point of entry because this is where the earth potential is introduced.Beyond that point,within the confines of the building,the pipes can no longer pick up an external earth potential so continuity is pointless. You are not achieving a better/superior result your way,you are wasting your time. If you want to bond pipework beyond that point, for whatever reason you may see fit, that is the realms of supplementary bonding,a different matter entirely.
I think if you look back over your posts you will find they are rather mocking and IMO they are composed with intent to offend,at least you have apologised for that

 

[Engineer54]

One also has to consider that in many cases these days there is no gas supply, so unless the homeowner goes with oil central heating there will be no boiler. Many of these newly built homes are generally 100% electric, with either storage heaters or underfloor heating. The only area where water will come in contact with any electrical earthing system would be via CPC's from Showers or immersion type water heating. So if a numpty plumber chops out a short section near to the water bond and replaces with plastic, ....no-one would even consider bridge bonding that 2 or so feet of plastic pipe, so as to include the whole of that copper pipework in being bonded back to the MET???

 

[yellowvanman]

Wouldn't that 2 feet or so of plastic piping (and the clean water inside) then isolate the pipework from earth? So breaking the 'extraneous' part of the copper pipework, and not providing a path to earth for anyone who is unfortunate to be touching something that is live.

 

[Engineer54]

I only take exception to misleading information posted on this forum....The fact is that the question from the OP referred to main bonding,the sole purpose of main bonding is achieved by bonding at the point of entry because this is where the earth potential is introduced.Beyond that point,within the confines of the building,the pipes can no longer pick up an external earth potential so continuity is pointless. You are not achieving a better/superior result your way,you are wasting your time. If you want to bond pipework beyond that point, for whatever reason you may see fit, that is the realms of supplementary bonding,a different matter entirely.
I think if you look back over your posts you will find they are rather mocking and IMO they are composed with intent to offend,at least you have apologised for that

Absolutely nothing misleading about my post, i hoped commonsense would prevail, but like i stated your only reading what you want to see, not was being said!!... Nothing in this industry is as black and white as you like to suggest. Everything seems pointless to you, if it's not written down word for word in your holy BRB.

As for mud slinging, ...i suggest you go look at some of your own posts, before inferring as to what others are posting...

 

[Engineer54]

Wouldn't that 2 feet or so of plastic piping (and the clean water inside) then isolate the pipework from earth? So breaking the 'extraneous' part of the copper pipework, and not providing a path to earth for anyone who is unfortunate to be touching something that is live.

You wouldn't know that, unless you tested it. Depends on building construction and many other things. So you wouldn't even consider bridging that short gap in the copper work then ??

 

[Deleted member 9648]

One also has to consider that in many cases these days there is no gas supply, so unless the homeowner goes with oil central heating there will be no boiler. Many of these newly built homes are generally 100% electric, with either storage heaters or underfloor heating. The only area where water will come in contact with any electrical earthing system would be via CPC's from Showers or immersion type water heating. So if a numpty plumber chops out a short section near to the water bond and replaces with plastic, ....no-one would even consider bridge bonding that 2 or so feet of plastic pipe, so as to include the whole of that copper pipework in being bonded back to the MET???

Why?, it would be a pointless thing to do...the introduced earth potential from outside has been bonded to MET at the point of entry. As long as all the pipework beyond that point is in the confines of the building it can no longer pick up an external earth potential ,so there can be no potential difference between the pipes and conductive parts.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

haha!!....yeah alright!!!!

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[Deleted member 9648]

Not so funny really, just sad!!!

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[Deleted member 9648]

Really, ....and how exactly would you know that?? By that statement you wouldn't even take the time to test the copper pipework after that short bit of plastic, to be sure. ...And Yes i would still cross bond bathroom/special locations, as i don't have the blind faith as most in relying on an RCD device.

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