18th edition question

[chris day]

Not been on the 18th edition course yet.

In short what are the design changes I will need to implement come jan 1st on a domestic re-wire?

 

[alasdairp]

This was discussed in a previous post and I think it was @SparkyChick who came up with the great idea of doing 2 items for a quote. One with AFDDs and one without. Also stating that the regs recommend AFDDs... Then it is up to the customer which to choose.

Yes, I read that - and it is a really good practical idea - but that is extra work and it will still be easy to be undercut by others who dismiss the need, making you look like a shark.
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From: IET Forums - The thousand pound fusebox - https://www.------.org/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=205&threadid=106311
see the discussion there only a few months ago
19 July 2018 by dustydazzler

I just costed a Crabtree 18th ed consumer unit for a job at the cost to me it's £1085 +vat for afdd/rcd 10 circuits / 20 module board. And that is haggling like heck on the price with my regular London wholesaler , he is working on a 12.5% Margin for himself. That price is possibly subject to go up due to afdd rcd price hasn't been 100% confirmation yet.
Arc fault breakers are readily available across Europe and cost around 120 euros. So they won't just be only a couple quid dearer than an RCBBO. At best they will probably come down to around £50 a unit I reckon.
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[Marti]

Yes, I read that - and it is a really good practical idea - but that is extra work and it will still be easy to be undercut by others who dismiss the need, making you look like a shark.
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From: IET Forums - The thousand pound fusebox - https://www.------.org/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=205&threadid=106311
see the discussion there only a few months ago
19 July 2018 by dustydazzler

I just costed a Crabtree 18th ed consumer unit for a job at the cost to me it's £1085 +vat for afdd/rcd 10 circuits / 20 module board.
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This is the rock of the IET attitude meeting the hard place of customer price point. If anyone can think of a better method of promoting the unqualified multi-trader in his determination to go cheaper - get in and get out fast; personally I can't.

My apologies; a "preaching to the choir" moment me thinks!

 

[Spoon]

Yes, I read that - and it is a really good practical idea - but that is extra work and it will still be easy to be undercut by others who dismiss the need, making you look like a shark.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: IET Forums - The thousand pound fusebox - https://www.------.org/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=205&threadid=106311
see the discussion there only a few months ago
19 July 2018 by dustydazzler

I just costed a Crabtree 18th ed consumer unit for a job at the cost to me it's £1085 +vat for afdd/rcd 10 circuits / 20 module board. And that is haggling like heck on the price with my regular London wholesaler , he is working on a 12.5% Margin for himself. That price is possibly subject to go up due to afdd rcd price hasn't been 100% confirmation yet.
Arc fault breakers are readily available across Europe and cost around 120 euros. So they won't just be only a couple quid dearer than an RCBBO. At best they will probably come down to around £50 a unit I reckon.
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As you say, to change a CU and fit AFDD's then I can't see many customers going for the massive price increase.
Just give them 2 items on a quote. One with AFDDs and one without.
Make it clear that the current regs 'recommend' AFDD's but if they choose not to have them then that is their responsibility. You have recommended that they do have them.
Your arse is covered and it's up to the customer.
If you insist in AFDD's then not many customers will fully understand and go with the cheaper quote from someone who will not fit them.

 

[pirate]

As a total amateur, but keen to learn, I have some concerns over all that is in this thread. I have read extensively on the dangers of cables over exits and exit routes falling down in a fire and causing obstruction to firefighters, but assumed this related to multiple cable types, power, lighting, alarm and data all being in conduit below ceiling height, assuming also that if these cables were above, say, plasterboard ceilings, then the problem didn't arise...at least not until the fire has such a hold that the ceilings collapse, either due to the fire alone, or due to a combination of that and, say, saturation from water from melted plastic water supply pipes. Then, if the cables are led through joists, is that safe, as it will take the fire longer to eat through the timber? If the cables are all clipped direct to the joists, or to rafters above, then the joists have to fail first, if the cables are on the side, not the top? Suppose you use metal clips screwed to the joists? The integrity of that would depend not only on the quality of the joists but also on the screws used to fasten the clips. A screw with 5mm mimimum penetration isn't going to hold as long as a screw with 50mm penetration...
Please note: I do not know the answer, but I am very interested on all views on this. I do have a view that suggests that in a single storey ground-floor building of modest dimensions, the exit time is likely to be so short, and the discovery of fire time equally so, that different considerations apply than for a multi-storey building with multiple occupants. The former is a much lower risk for firefighters entanglement than the latter, imho...is it not the case that there is no "one rule fits all" approach?

 

[Octopus]

^^^

Sensible use of punctuation and paragraphs might make that readable

 

[pirate]

The ability to read and parse would assist immeasurably, I'm sure...
Try again!
or ask Buzzlightyear to translate for you...

 

[pirate]

Maybe not my neatest effort, but re-reading it all, it seems clear to me.
Hopefully, JK will come along soon...

 

[pirate]

Anyway, for discussion...there is no one right answer, and being practical people, you must know what works, and can defend your practices, regardless of any recommendations (as opposed to regulations)
You have to demonstrate that you have thought and designed...if your design is defensible, go for it. Be inventive, be creative, seek a solution that works on a particular job...don't just blindly follow some ideas someone else has promulgated. If you don't think your design will stand up to scrutiny, think again.

 

[pirate]

and don't fk with my syntax, ok?
LOL!

 

[Nigel]

This was discussed in a previous post and I think it was @SparkyChick who came up with the great idea of doing 2 items for a quote. One with AFDDs and one without. Also stating that the regs recommend AFDDs... Then it is up to the customer which to choose.

This is precisely what my 18th Edition trainer said. Give the customer an option but ensure they have the information required to make a call.

 

[oracle]

and don't fk with my syntax, ok?
LOL!

How much tax do you get charged for your syn? I'm told the wages of syn is death, but I didn't realise there was tax on it as well.

 

[pirate]

There's nothing surer than death and taxes!

 

[Dave OCD]

Roll on death, the working mans friend.

 

[Baddegg]

Truest words ever spoken Dave! Amen

 

[oracle]

I owe, I owe, it's off to work I go!