NICEIC Certification Scheme 2391 V NICEIC - Whats the point in 2391??

[Andy78]

Fair comment. It also doesn't state that you even need to be an electrician. I think that if you applied, things may get a bit more rigorous. I may be wrong, and a painter and decorator who wired his moms extension may be able to join. I hope not!!

You are labouring under delusions of an industry that has leading schemes that are out to protect standards over profit.

As soon as part P was brought out opportunities were spotted by the new CPS schemes and training centres to enroll the likes of plumbers and other trades into the schemes.
This evolved into the short course training route which is now actively encouraged and aided by the likes of the NICEIC to churn through applicants in a few weeks to swell the ranks of the schemes in return for membership fees. This was aided by the aforementioned low entry requirements.

 

[Steve Bramah]

Ok, guys, this is my first time on this site, and i have learned that qualifications have been overuled by the "competent persons scheme"
I have been in this industry for 44 years and i am still learning today.
I have virtually every qualification necessary for me to carry out my field of work, plus a couple i don't need, but they are all irrelevant.
I don't feel that my 44 years can give anything to this site, as you all cry "competent person". A short lived relationship, but i won't be back, but thanks to Westwood for backing up my statement about Elecsa requirements.

 

[Andy78]

Ok, guys, this is my first time on this site, and i have learned that qualifications have been overuled by the "competent persons scheme"
I have been in this industry for 44 years and i am still learning today.
I have virtually every qualification necessary for me to carry out my field of work, plus a couple i don't need, but they are all irrelevant.
I don't feel that my 44 years can give anything to this site, as you all cry "competent person". A short lived relationship, but i won't be back, but thanks to Westwood for backing up my statement about Elecsa requirements.

Nobody here has said that. You suggested it once though.

 

[Rpa07]

I’ve been in the garden all day - did I miss anything?

 

[Des 56]

Steve,would you prefer responses that simply agree in all aspects with your views ?

Taking your ball and running because fellow sparks have different attitudes

There may be more cynical opinion of the schemes than what you experience but the well being of our trade is uppermost in all contributors

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Ok, guys, this is my first time on this site, and i have learned that qualifications have been overuled by the "competent persons scheme"
I have been in this industry for 44 years and i am still learning today.
I have virtually every qualification necessary for me to carry out my field of work, plus a couple i don't need, but they are all irrelevant.
I don't feel that my 44 years can give anything to this site, as you all cry "competent person". A short lived relationship, but i won't be back, but thanks to Westwood for backing up my statement about Elecsa requirements.

All you need to do is get your facts straight.
People were Inspecting and Testing installations a long time before the 2391 was a twinkle in someone’s eye.
To suggest that a qualified electrician can’t Inspect and test their own work is a joke.
Failure to do so would be a non-compliance with BS7671.
As for the Competent Person Schemes, Inspection and Testing is not covered by Part P, so there is no requirement for anyone registering with such a scheme to hold the 2391 qualification.

 

[Dillb]

Ok, guys, this is my first time on this site, and i have learned that qualifications have been overuled by the "competent persons scheme"
I have been in this industry for 44 years and i am still learning today.
I have virtually every qualification necessary for me to carry out my field of work, plus a couple i don't need, but they are all irrelevant.
I don't feel that my 44 years can give anything to this site, as you all cry "competent person". A short lived relationship, but i won't be back, but thanks to Westwood for backing up my statement about Elecsa requirements.

Why announce it, why not just leave and never post again? Or you expecting everyone to ask you to stay?

 

[Steve Bramah]

Perhaps I should clarify my opinion of fully qualified? Someone who holds 236-1/2 (yes I’m old enough to date your nan lol) hold the 17th edition update (everyone has this right ?) as well as being time served with enough experience to hold a JIB Approved Electrician card as a minimum.
While those who don’t have the above are likely to get all out of shape (tea/cake stop imminent).
Let me ask you this? If you were paying for an electrician to work on you house wouldn’t you want them to be able to demonstrate their competence to do so with recognised qualifications, competence & experience (they don’t give away JIB Approved Electrician status do they?) together with accountability should anything happen?
I'm glad I'm not the only one on here with 236 parts 1 & 2.
I joined Elecsa, just to get Building control off my back, and that ain't cheap. Been at this for 44 years and never stop learning.

Do I agree with the scams? Absolutely not! At. 54 I don’t profess to know it all... far from it, but as an Approved Electrician with both 236-1/2, 2400, 2391, 2382, 2377.
I fail to see why I’m forced to subscribe to play their game so as to be seen able & above board to trade as an “Approved Comtractor”

Why do I? Because I’m able to charge a premium as well as choosing the jobs I prefer...to a large degree.

As anyone can be a busy fool! So why not make your time as profitable as possible.

 

[ipf]

Steve, just a question. Having been in the trade for 44 years, how long have you been a scam member?

 

[JAWS]

Steve you sound very similar to the poster amptramp who posted yesterday, similarities are very similar.

 

[Andy78]

Why announce it, why not just leave and never post again? Or you expecting everyone to ask you to stay?

It's called a flounce

Urban Dictionary: Flounce - https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Flounce

 

[Steve Bramah]

Steve,would you prefer responses that simply agree in all aspects with your views ?

Taking your ball and running because fellow sparks have different attitudes

There may be more cynical opinion of the schemes than what you experience but the well being of our trade is uppermost in all contributors

Hi Des, there is a saying in our industry that "no 2 sparks work alike".
Everyone has their own interpretation of regs etc, but facts are facts. My main point was that you cannot enrol with either Elecsa or NIC without 2391 or equivalent. In the end, one of the guys, who is a QS but without 2391, admitted it was a requirement.
I am not one for taking my ball home, because i enjoy debate, and my opinion is not necessarily fact, but when i state a fact, i usually have something to back it up. I don't --------. I don't need to.
I have been in this industry a lot longer than most, so experience must count for something......so long as its not overuled by the "competent person scheme"!

 

[Steve Bramah]

Steve, just a question. Having been in the trade for 44 years, how long have you been a scam member?

??

 

[Andy78]

Hi Des, there is a saying in our industry that "no 2 sparks work alike".
Everyone has their own interpretation of regs etc, but facts are facts. My main point was that you cannot enrol with either Elecsa or NIC without 2391 or equivalent. In the end, one of the guys, who is a QS but without 2391, admitted it was a requirement.
I am not one for taking my ball home, because i enjoy debate, and my opinion is not necessarily fact, but when i state a fact, i usually have something to back it up. I don't ********. I don't need to.
I have been in this industry a lot longer than most, so experience must count for something......so long as its not overuled by the "competent person scheme"!

The 2391 is not a requirement for membership of elecsa or the niceic that I know of unless you can back that up with some facts.

I know of many that are QS without the 2391. You can contact schemes for their individual requirements of this.

Your experience counts for a lot, just as some without specific qualifications would hope that their lengthy experience would count for something with regard to testing and inspection.

Glad you stayed for the debate. This is a great forum with many experienced and like minded people, the majority of which are for the upkeep and improvement of standards in our industry.

 

[Steve Bramah]

The 2391 is not a requirement for membership of elecsa or the niceic that I know of unless you can back that up with some facts.

I know of many that are QS without the 2391. You can contact schemes for their individual requirements of this.

Your experience counts for a lot, just as some without specific qualifications would hope that their lengthy experience would count for something with regard to testing and inspection.

Glad you stayed for the debate. This is a great forum with many experienced and like minded people, the majority of which are for the upkeep and improvement of standards in our industry.

Thanks for your comments Andy. I am an Elecsa member, and one of the first requirements was 2391. Enough said!