30A JB's and 32A ring final circuits

[Brightspark2]

Using JB's in this day and age when we have Wagos and lineproducts....Inexcusable.

The Hager MF JB's are good. I like them...


Also OP under the floor is definitely inaccessible!...

 

[amo]

Yes use crimps or run a new length of cable

 

[Tiny Spark]

I always do, as do many "old school" electricians.

Oiii!!

Who you calling old!?

 

[gazj82]

What are your guys thoughts on in line crimps on steel trunking. Got told by some other sparks, it's not in an acessable enclosure, or an acceptable joint.

I told him he was talking rubbish. It's the same as the lugs you crimp on in your mains incoming cables! And if trunking isn't accesible when it has a lid! Well! I won't even say the words I thought to sum him up

What are your thoughts?

 

[davethsparky]

Well with health and safety considerations you may actually need two people to safely manoeuvre a full length trunking lid so you may need to cut a short length just to cover the joint. Then you'd best put a big yellow sticker on it warning of the maximum voltage present. Then a big label identifying the fact that the joint is there. And install a light near it so that you can see it properly and record its location on the plans. And get the trunking tested to ensure it meets all the current product standards for an enclosure.

Jeez its a big metal box designed specifically to contain electrical wiring, who on earth says you can't have a maintainance free joint in there? Hell a lot of it is accessible so you could use your screw terminals of choice, everyone loves to pop the lid off of a trunking and get attacked by sprawling connector blocks!

 

[Lucien Nunes]

The trick is to put the choc block inside a trunking tee or other junction so that when it burns out, you can get at it without taking off a full length of lid. There was a long story behind the pic below but it reminded me why I don't like even MF connections in trunking except for very special situations.

Going back to the OP, what makes a 30A JB a 30A JB? That's the number moulded into the plastic but what does it mean? Under some conditions it's no good for even 15A (Slightly corroded 2.5 lying badly in the terminals, slack screws, installation method pushing cable near max permissible temp) and others its OK for 40 (clean 6.0 meshed together, tight but not overtight screws, low ambient). Even if the whole 32A was on the one JB you could argue the ----, on an RFC you have a comfortable margin.

 

[davethsparky]

Tut tut, trunking lids missing! that's got to be a C2 sir, but what I can do for you is sell you a nice shiny new consumer unit!

 

[SplitJugular]

But in your example you were saying under the floor boards, under the carpet - which is INACCESSIBLE.

Accessible is within reach without having to lift a floor board or moving a 120KG American Fridge Freezer

ok so what you are saying is that the socket behind a 120KG fridge is inaccessible, if that fridge has a 13a plug top then its a portable appliance.


in reply to many other posters on this matter, surely under the floor is inaccessible full stop then, if under boards is ok without carpet, can i tell the customer that they can NEVER put carpet\lamanate down as there are joints under the floor

with enough determination you can get anywhere you need and the level of expected damage when carrying out work is a matter that needs to be discussed with the customer, as i stated earlier if a plasterer re plastered a room and plastered round all the light switches and sockets then you could only remove said sockets or switches by 'scoring' round the edge with a knife and do your best to minimalise damage, these facts did not make the sockets or switches inaccessable its no different to puling up a carpet, i feel that an electrician that doesnt want to pull up a carpet for fear of damage is either imcomputent or lazy.

 

[SplitJugular]

JB under floorboards covered by carpet is inaccessible, simple.
Using JB's in this day and age when we have Wagos and lineproducts....Inexcusable. Why even argue the point when we have quick and easy MF kits available.

dont get me started with this, basically the bloke is the one guy from the council that dishes out a bit of work to us self employed, so i like the work but not this guy, sticky situation,
im all for wagos and push in connectors but he wont let me use the push in connectors i prefer, even though on the box it says suitable for 2.5mm cores and aits rated to 27A (which as i found out is more than enough for RFC) he tells me that i should use a 45A JB, he wont even let me use crimps. recently had to move some dis-boards down to accessible levels and when joining all my cables he wants to use din-rail connectors, nothing wrong with crimps in my experience except when you get those sily crimpers that only work one way??
ultimatly this guy is a complete tool

 

[7029 dave]

an electrician that doesnt want to pull up a carpet for fear of damage is either imcomputent or lazy. Its all part of the job isn't it?

 

[SplitJugular]

Now you are being stupid.

My point is that is there is a floorboard, a carpet, a washing machine or a 120kg fridge freezer in the way then in all these scenarios the jb's or sockets are inaccessible.

End OF.

calling me stupid is very counter productive, at the end of the day its not written in black and white anywhere out there and is open to interitation, and if we are talking stupid you were the one who replied to this thread with something completely off topic and with a question that is dicussed on many other threads titled 'Accessible area?' it seems to me you just want to argue the ---- over something that doesnt have a definitive answer.
now Murdoch what are your thoughts on using 30A jb's on 32A RFC's if you answer this then you actually contributed to this thread rather than fill it with off topic posts, thanks to you the majority of posts are discussing jb location rather than suitability

 

[Octopus]

calling me stupid is very counter productive, at the end of the day its not written in black and white anywhere out there and is open to interitation, and if we are talking stupid you were the one who replied to this thread with something completely off topic and with a question that is dicussed on many other threads titled 'Accessible area?' it seems to me you just want to argue the ---- over something that doesnt have a definitive answer.
now Murdoch what are your thoughts on using 30A jb's on 32A RFC's if you answer this then you actually contributed to this thread rather than fill it with off topic posts, thanks to you the majority of posts are discussing jb location rather than suitability

Using MF JB's under the floor on a ring is OK.

"is open to interitation" - surely you mean interpretation - and yes, I will state clearly AGAIN. Under floor boards is NOT accessible.

 

[kingeri]

To sum up, a JB of rating 20A or greater is suitable for use on a Ring Final Circuit. If the JB is to be situated in a non-accessible location (for example, under floorboards), then in order to comply with BS7671 it must be Maintenance Free and carry the MF symbol.

 

[SplitJugular]

Using MF JB's under the floor on a ring is OK.

"is open to interitation" - surely you mean interpretation - and yes, I will state clearly AGAIN. Under floor boards is NOT accessible.

now you are just being pedantic, im an electrician not an english teacher, also you can clearly state that under floorboards is not accesible but that is still your interpretation of the regs, untill you name is either 'author of regs' or 'GOD' you cannot say that this is fact untill you have sufficient source to back up your claim. also you still fail to answer the OP you are still trying to shoehorn in your opinion of JB's under the floor

Im asking specifically are JB's rated at 30A ok to use on RFC that is covered by a 32A MCB, now try to answer in a focussed manner and please forget about location of JB

 

[Octopus]

now you are just being pedantic, im an electrician not an english teacher, also you can clearly state that under floorboards is not accesible but that is still your interpretation of the regs, untill you name is either 'author of regs' or 'GOD' you cannot say that this is fact untill you have sufficient source to back up your claim. also you still fail to answer the OP you are still trying to shoehorn in your opinion of JB's under the floor

Im asking specifically are JB's rated at 30A ok to use on RFC that is covered by a 32A MCB, now try to answer in a focussed manner and please forget about location of JB

Because clearly a JB, non MF, under a floodboard is not accessible - why would you think it is?