415v 3 phase sockets and rcd protection.

[simpson93]

Afternoon all,

Looking for a little guidance, other than doing sub mains in armoured I don’t do much three phase work.

I’m looking to install some final
Circuits for some three phase cooking equipment but I find myself stuck on a few things, as the sockets will be over 16amp they will need to be rcd protected but I can’t seem to find anything to find a Hager board rcbo etc. What’s the best way to protect it?

Also generally if doing a three phase sub main I would take an additional earth as I’m not so keen on solely relying on the armoured earth. Do most people generally rely on the armoured earth or use 5core?

Thanks for your help

 

[Charlie_]

reasonable assumptions based on the information he has given and the huge amount of experience I have in this area..
I have designed and installed many commercial kitchens, the information I have given is very helpful.

 

[simpson93]

thank you all for your advise.

Installer who is connected the equipment has specified socket outlets.

The catering equipment, i belive will be on wheels for cleaning etc.

From all the info i have recieved there seems to be several ways todo this.

I think i will be taking the route of having an inline rcd for each peice of equipment, i would have prefered go put it in the board but it seems the costs for a hager addon rcd is quite expensive £300 a peice.
The rcd socket also seems like a viable option however i wonder if being directly behind equipent would make it less accessible or in the way due to the size, if its further up the line at least more of the cable is protected.

 

[davesparks]

reasonable assumptions based on the information he has given and the huge amount of experience I have in this area..
I have designed and installed many commercial kitchens, the information I have given is very helpful.

I don't think they are reasonable assumptions. No matter how many kitchens you have designed, unless you have seen the design for this kitchen or the specification the OP is working to you can't assume what is required.
Some specifications require socket outlets to be fitted to allow quick replacement of faulty equipment to reduce downtime, removal for deep cleaning or changing the equipment as required.

The majority of my experience of commercial kitchens is for events, so everything is on plugs and sockets. Sometimes this is in fields on generators and sometimes indoors with various three phase outlets provided.

 

[Strima]

I can feel the love in this thread.

I'm currently in negotiations with several major telecoms providers who want socket outlets to power their racks but don't want RCD protection but refuse to do a risk assessment. They are the designers but don't want the responsibility for the risk assessment, rock and a hard place this change to 411.3.3.

I need a beer.

 

[Charlie_]

I’m not disputing the need for a plug and socket only the need for RCD protection..
Up until now equipment in this environment hasn’t needed to be considered for RCD protection..

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Regulations change.
Some of use keep up with the changes, some don’t.
I guess this why we have update courses.

 

[Charlie_]

Regulations change.
Some of use keep up with the changes, some don’t.
I guess this why we have update courses.

Trouble with the courses is they only skim through the regs..
Some of us keep up to date and also know how to apply them accordingly

 

[freddo]

can’t seem to find anything to find a Hager board rcbo etc.

Hager now make compact add on RCD modules, the finished unit takes up 4 modules.

Oops I missed the last 2 pages of replies...

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Trouble with the courses is they only skim through the regs..
Some of us keep up to date and also know how to apply them accordingly

The last course I did for the 16th edition, was mostly about how to label up the book and doing past papers.
There was some discussion about particular Regs.
In the main the course was designed to help us pass the exam, not learn the Regs.

One of the reasons I’m a member of this and other forums is to keep my knowledge of the Regs up to date.
I know for a fact that I have mentioned this change in the requirements to provide RCD protection for sockets, as have a number of other members.

As for applying the changed requirements, the solutions are to provide RCD protection, produce or have produced a documented RA which indicates RCD protection is not required, or use a socket rated higher than 32A.

 

[Charlie_]

The last course I did for the 16th edition, was mostly about how to label up the book and doing past papers.
There was some discussion about particular Regs.
In the main the course was designed to help us pass the exam, not learn the Regs.

One of the reasons I’m a member of this and other forums is to keep my knowledge of the Regs up to date.
I know for a fact that I have mentioned this change in the requirements to provide RCD protection for sockets, as have a number of other members.

As for applying the changed requirements, the solutions are to provide RCD protection, produce or have produced a documented RA which indicates RCD protection is not required, or use a socket rated higher than 32A.

We got there in the end

 

[Deleted member 26818]

We got there in the end

I got there a long time ago.

 

[Charlie_]

I got there a long time ago.

Ditto

 

[ipf]

What's an odd RCD between friends

 

[magnoliafan89]

What did i miss???

 

[Charlie_]

What's an odd RCD between friends

Kirchhoff ‘s Law
It’s a very fine balancing act you know