Am I being a snob, or is this actually dangerous

[Inteificio]

On a distribution board last week in a farm house, I saw 2 core 4mm SWA with the sheath terminated by having a couple of strands in a terminal block.

A photo would save a thousand words, but I found out on that day that my camera phone is not waterproof =-(

The other sparky on site said it is fine if the Zs is in, which I accepted at the time.

Then I got thinking, the Zs will make sure the fuse trips, but how can you guarantee conductor safety while the fuse is tripping?
We had a similar issue in our factory where a spark proved that a distribution circuit would blow in 4s, within the limit. However I pointed out the wires would be melting the insulation after 1s.

I can do the calcs to prove how hot that conductor will get, but that is not sparky level maths and I know the guy who installed it won't be able to do that.

So my question is:

When is it ever safe to terminate only a couple of strands of the armouring on SWA when it is being used as the CPC.

This is quite important as I am going to be politely confronting the guy, and I don't want to risk causing offence if I am wrong. I will be the first to admit domestic is not my speciality.

 

[D Skelton]

yes but i thought that had already been covered by earlier posts....it was the fact that the cable hadn`t been glanded/secured at all which thus was also compromising the IP rating of the c/u.....

Still, I wouldn't class that as immediate danger, just my opinion. Codes are open to interpretation though I suppose. Some may say C1, some may say C2, either way, it means it needs sorting out! lol.

all in all its a load of crap and woe betide anyone who ever worked for me doing something like that...and i got called out after em to sort it.....woe betide em......

I fully agree!

Were not talking about doing a PIR here, were talking about a new build. Coding doesn't come into it, it's a straight up and down, non-complying pigs ear of a job and needs correcting....

You're right, totally, however I think I skimmed through a lot of posts and that's why I'm off digressing with Glenn but anyway, It's interesting to see what others would code it as if it were a PIR.

To the OP, give the spark (and I use that word very loosely) who set this up in your old dears house a good hard slap will ya! And most importantly, don't hand over a penny until it's sorted! If you turned up in court using the defence "But BS 7671 is non-statutory isn't it???..." any judge would throw the book at you!

The guy who set this up at your mums is a complete douche! simple as!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

well lets say ...a blank was missing from one of the unused ways on this c/u......what would you give it?....a dangerous situation?....

 

[D Skelton]

well lets say ...a blank was missing from one of the unused ways on this c/u......what would you give it?....a dangerous situation?....

Tough one! ermmm, it all depends I think. If it was easily accessible to anybody and had no other form of cover then probably yes, but if it was fitted high up maybe in a meter cupboard and the CU had a front cover of some kind, similar to the covers Contactum use over their CU's then maybe no.

TBH, I think in 99% of cases I would have to give that a C1 to be safe. It all depends on that all important interpretation of the words 'immediate danger'.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

its a "1" mate...stonewall to me...

 

[D Skelton]

Your PIR, your coding innit

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Your PIR, your coding innit

well with all respect d...i could not accept a "2" for this on the basis its up near the ceiling.....what happens if an MCB or an RCD/RCBO lets go?...and an unskilled/uninstructed person/s not under supervision (the owner/occupier) decides to reset.....then the danger exists.....what if they dont keep any steps/ladders....and decide to reset using somthing to "poke" the MCB/RCD/RCBO closed again?....what if its a bit of metal they have to hand and it slips and goes into the unblanked way/s..hmm?....a lot of what iffs here but isn`t about reducing potentials to a minimum?......

 

[D Skelton]

Yeah, there is a lot if ifs, that's why I said in 99% of cases a C1 would probably be the case, but there may be a case where it is not needed.

 

[1shortcircuit]

I think this is now moving away from the original question the OP posted

Speaking of OP, when did they last post????

 

[GLENNSPARK]

i think we may have hijacked this one a bit short mate....sorry all....

 

[1shortcircuit]

i think we may have hijacked this one a bit short mate....sorry all....

Easily done isn't it lol

I'm hoping the OP will come back with an update and hopefully some photos. Photos will definitely be required anyway as it will assist with the snagging work:thumbsup

 

[gottahugenoggin]

I think this is now moving away from the original question the OP posted

Speaking of OP, when did they last post????

I think he may of gone to do some more maths that are far too advanced for us mere mortals maybe ?

So where were you gentlemen? the code 1/2 dispute
As a numpty (learning) im thinking of exceptions to it being a code 1,would it be if the CU's in a lockable enclosure (with with an equal ip rating?) with the key only available to instructed,competent or skilled person(s)?.........or a barrier in place?
But then you have overhead gantry cranes that have live exposed conductive parts and thats acceptable because there out of reach? or overhead busbars supplying industrial machinery
Is it simply a code 1 because the CU does not meet the given ip rating stated in 7671?

 

[spark 68]

But placing out of reach is not acceptable for domestic and is only to be applied where an installation is controlled by a skilled or supervised person, 417 (BRB)

 

[Engineer54]

I think he's hanging his head in shame, for even contemplating accepting this CU installation, based on if his high level math calculations came out good!!!

 

[D Skelton]

I think he may of gone to do some more maths that are far too advanced for us mere mortals maybe ?

So where were you gentlemen? the code 1/2 dispute
As a numpty (learning) im thinking of exceptions to it being a code 1,would it be if the CU's in a lockable enclosure (with with an equal ip rating?) with the key only available to instructed,competent or skilled person(s)?.........or a barrier in place?
But then you have overhead gantry cranes that have live exposed conductive parts and thats acceptable because there out of reach? or overhead busbars supplying industrial machinery
Is it simply a code 1 because the CU does not meet the given ip rating stated in 7671?

As far as I'm aware, there's nothing written down in statute or in BS 7671 that outlines what can and can't be given a code 1. It is up to the person carrying out the inspection to decide whether there is any immediate danger present and code accordingly. For me, I find it is never black or white when giving something a C1, there can sometimes be a lot of different factors involved.

Anyway, as Glenn said, we've hijacked this post enough. There are plenty of heated debates and informative threads involving PIR coding on this forum if you want to involve yourself A quick search will throw up some quite interesting scenarios

 

[gottahugenoggin]

ok thanks guys