Am I being a snob, or is this actually dangerous

[Inteificio]

On a distribution board last week in a farm house, I saw 2 core 4mm SWA with the sheath terminated by having a couple of strands in a terminal block.

A photo would save a thousand words, but I found out on that day that my camera phone is not waterproof =-(

The other sparky on site said it is fine if the Zs is in, which I accepted at the time.

Then I got thinking, the Zs will make sure the fuse trips, but how can you guarantee conductor safety while the fuse is tripping?
We had a similar issue in our factory where a spark proved that a distribution circuit would blow in 4s, within the limit. However I pointed out the wires would be melting the insulation after 1s.

I can do the calcs to prove how hot that conductor will get, but that is not sparky level maths and I know the guy who installed it won't be able to do that.

So my question is:

When is it ever safe to terminate only a couple of strands of the armouring on SWA when it is being used as the CPC.

This is quite important as I am going to be politely confronting the guy, and I don't want to risk causing offence if I am wrong. I will be the first to admit domestic is not my speciality.

 

[Engineer54]

This is going to be my last word on this matter...

If you think for a even a second, that a BS standard won't count for anything in a court of law then your very much mistaken. As far as i know, there have been quite a few cases of non compliance, or where electrical installations have caused injury or destruction of property. Guess what publication was heavily used to prove the parties responsible, ...guilty of professional neglect!!!

The only way you can circumvent BS7671 is by improvement, ie, ...designing/installing to a higher standard or level than that stated in BS7671... After all The Reg's are classified as the ''Minimum'' requirements of electrical installations!!


You say in one of your posts, that your an Electrical Engineer, yet you don't seem to be aware of all the implications, when a simple SWA cable hasn't been terminated correctly, or as in this case, a complete pigs ear of a job has been made of the termination...


As a final thought, i'm not sure i would call a guy a mate, who is willing to install and leave an installation at my parents home in this condition, and then have the cheek to hold his hand out for payment!! lol!!!

 

[Guest112]

agreed i really dont see the reasoning to not gland the cable clearly the spark isnt capable and will not admit it, if he cant gland an armoured i wonder what else he cant do, also regardless if your an engineer and you can do maths sparks cant well done you unnecessary calculations imo as a simple solution is there,

rather than trying to find an answer on here to justify poor workmanship you shouldve rang the spark and told him to get back to the job and do it again

 

[Knobhead]

Out of interest how is the cable terminated at the remote end?

 

[Dan the spark]

It must have taken him more time to bell out the 2cores in question at each end to find the right ones then it would have to have put 10 glands on?:dunce:

 

[Dan the spark]

Hopefully he hasn't just guessed them? Especially if the circuit has been energised?
As for leaving 2 socket fronts off, does this guy not carry out ring continuity tests before energising???

 

[trev]

I have to say, this guy sounds bloody dangerous to me. A non tested RFC with live ends flapping about, an swa hanging on it's terminations. What else has he not done right that hasn't been found yet?
I think I'd be showing him the door.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I really cant believe all this!! That SWA cable needs glanding, there is no ifs or buts about it!! There aren't any excuses this electrician can come up with to substantiate not glanding a SWA cable entering an enclose, especially a DB/CU... End off!!

it isn`t just the fact that the damned thing wasn`t glanded....the dis board`s IP rating will have been compromised by this n all....shocking....truely shocking....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

and on that basis i saw earlier in this thread it had been given a "2" by a poster on here......to me its a 1...

 

[dez0178]

Always bare in mind, You should always follow the reg's, and every termination should be of a High quality, as allready stated there should be all strands present, not just a couple. If you are in doubt and question the quality of work you see, then bet your bottom dollar, it's not good enough mate. Always do the best you can do, if you wouldn't like that in your house then don't do it in others.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Hopefully he hasn't just guessed them? Especially if the circuit has been energised?
As for leaving 2 socket fronts off, does this guy not carry out ring continuity tests before energising???

probably no real loop value taken here either.......so disconnection times may not have been met....think i would be having a look round all the accessories/terminations here n all....bet you find a wrong polarity or three..lol.....

 

[1shortcircuit]

Well Re the thread title I would like to think that everyone is in agreement.

You are not being a snob, this really is very dangerous if the installation has been energised :thumbsup

 

[D Skelton]

and on that basis i saw earlier in this thread it had been given a "2" by a poster on here......to me its a 1...

Gotta disagree with that buddy As shocking as it is to think that someone could terminate SWA in a connector block, it still at that moment in time provides an earth path. Acceptable or not, it poses no immediate danger, just the possibility of future danger, therefore a code 2. Those are my thoughts anyway.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Gotta disagree with that buddy As shocking as it is to think that someone could terminate SWA in a connector block, it still at that moment in time provides an earth path. Acceptable or not, it poses no immediate danger, just the possibility of future danger, therefore a code 2. Those are my thoughts anyway.

yes but i thought that had already been covered by earlier posts....it was the fact that the cable hadn`t been glanded/secured at all which thus was also compromising the IP rating of the c/u.....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

all in all its a load of crap and woe betide anyone who ever worked for me doing something like that...and i got called out after em to sort it.....woe betide em......

 

[Engineer54]

Gotta disagree with that buddy As shocking as it is to think that someone could terminate SWA in a connector block, it still at that moment in time provides an earth path. Acceptable or not, it poses no immediate danger, just the possibility of future danger, therefore a code 2. Those are my thoughts anyway.

Were not talking about doing a PIR here, were talking about a new build. Coding doesn't come into it, it's a straight up and down, non-complying pigs ear of a job and needs correcting....