AM2 Lighting

[Engineer54]

But of course i expect to be slated for having such a cowboy, loose jawed attitute towards such an obvious crime.

You said it cowboy!! lol!! Only jesting!!

Nothing against a neutral at a switch point if it's required, looping through switches is another matter!! At least using a 3 plate system, you won't have DIY Dave or Kevin kitchen fitter connecting up socket outlets from the switch points!!...lol!!

 

[Garythenab]

This debate is quite pointless on this thread.

The AM2 requires any wiring to be done in 1 way and 1 way only.

It is a fact that the neutral gets connected at the switch, do it differently and you fail....simples.

As for failing on the ring is it still wired in singles in trunking or is it t&e now. If its singles installing a 2.5mm cpc instead of a 1.5 will mean a big fat fail as you have to install according to there specifications.

 

[ackbarthestar]

This debate is quite pointless on this thread.

The AM2 requires any wiring to be done in 1 way and 1 way only.

It is a fact that the neutral gets connected at the switch, do it differently and you fail....simples.

As for failing on the ring is it still wired in singles in trunking or is it t&e now. If its singles installing a 2.5mm cpc instead of a 1.5 will mean a big fat fail as you have to install according to there specifications.

Nothing is ever pointless.....Lol
Just to watch the old fuddy duddies get hot under the collar adds to the rich tapestry of life's experience.

There are, of course multiple ways to skin a cat which ends up being a cat skinned. How you get there is a matter of choice. I take a neutral position myself !

 

[Knobhead]

The only bit I can’t understand is why the need to give a student “join the dots” instruction.
As Ackbar said there are many ways to do the same job. The student will have to think on his feet out in the big bad world. Make them think at collage.

Or is it the lecturers can’t think for themselves?

 

[Silly Sausage]

The only bit I can’t understand is why the need to give a student “join the dots” instruction.
As Ackbar said there are many ways to do the same job. The student will have to think on his feet out in the big bad world. Make them think at collage.

Or is it the lecturers can’t think for themselves?

I think the colleges are only interested in maximising the pass rate, don't want students thinking and getting confused!

 

[Knobhead]

I think the colleges are only interested in maximising the pass rate, don't want students thinking and getting confused!

Fully agree Archy.

But it will develop in to the “this is how I was shown at collage, it must be right” syndrome. Given a slightly odd ball installation our newly qualified “electrician’s brain”* will go in to overload and trip out. (Or they’ll be on here like a shot).

Original thinking, what’s that?

* I say that with reservations.

 

[ackbarthestar]

The 'blame' is not so much with the Lecturers, but the nature of the industry itself. There is an intransigency, zones of demarcation and jobs worth mentality that pervades still. - Lets not bring in the plumbers, Lol.....

There is not much wrong either with the quality of the student, only that they need to learn about the dangers of electricity, a correct approach to wiring, sizing and fixing. These are not difficult skills to learn but takes about five or so years to instill as so that they become second nature and electrical knowledge ferments into common sense. This approach often means that the 'qualified' installation electrician only remembers and/or understands the techniques that have been shown him/her by their employer and/or teacher. Add another 10 years of experience and the learning process spreads out to understand how things actually work.

A very good reason why anything more than basic inspection and testing of ones own work should not be attempted by a newly qualified electrician.

 

[Knobhead]

Unfortunately Ackbar, the newly “qualified electrician” can inspect and test his own work due the ineptitude of the scams in allowing it. Once the cheque has cleared.

Something that is wrong is right in the new electricians mind. He will sign the work off as safe.

Most of my collage time was spent on electrical theory. The regulations got the odd mention, it was down to you’re employer to drum the relevant regulations in to you.

Yes, I’m from a different time continuum, the theory has not changed.

 

[Dcf]

On a night out tonight I met a fellow spark I know who is roughly my age ,work in different bits of the trade but chewing the fat we came to the following agreements
1) this trade is ****ed
2)off site/ plug and play engineering is deskilling the industry to its detriment
3) 50 year old adult trainees are no use to man nor beast
4) my pet hate of "the specialist"bits of electrical work ie fire alarms motors, controls
is what my generation of sparks used to do as general sparking is now off limits for some reason.
5) there are no all rounder sparks under 35 these days really
6) a lack of general pride in work these days
as in he was on some jobs where he was embarrassed by the standard of work.
Which any spark who knows the game shouldn't ever be.
Point is step by step instructions on how to wire a 2 way are no use to nobody
You young boys have got to learn to think on your feet at some time

 

[Knobhead]

DCF.

There’s always been sectionalisation in the electrical industry.

The union when it was a union was the Electrical, Electronic, Telecommunications and Plumbing Union. I was a convener. You step over the boundary of you’re trade and I’d be on you like a ton of bricks! (But the brickies would be out on strike if I did.)

Plant control and instrumentation had no more relationship to domestic as did heavy power to telecoms. Each has its specialists.

OK I’m lucky I spanned both plant control, instrumentation and heavy power.
But on the way telecoms got mixed in.

BMS is now getting in to domestic, BMS is control systems and instrumentation along with some power control via telecoms.

Eeerr I’m going around in circles.

So where do we draw the line?

I’ve always been comfortable with heavy and light power: 3Ph 433V 1334A industrial or a 1Ph 250V 80A domestic supply.

When it gets to control I get twitchy.
A room thermostat is control, a proximity switch is control. What do they control? A nice comfy environment or £1000’s of production? The principal is the same!

Answers on a post card to…………….

I’ll second guess RoB2 with MV!

 

[YoungBart]

As for failing on the ring is it still wired in singles in trunking or is it t&e now. If its singles installing a 2.5mm cpc instead of a 1.5 will mean a big fat fail as you have to install according to there specifications.

Yep the ring is still in singles and I think the mistake you've mentioned is the sin I committed.

 

[Engineer54]

Yep the ring is still in singles and I think the mistake you've mentioned is the sin I committed.

Are talking about a PVC trunking/conduit or metal installation??

 

[YoungBart]

Are talking about a PVC trunking/conduit or metal installation??

All of the Ring (and the lighting) is in PVC Trunking.

 

[sp4rk13]

no 1 is correct , no 2 isnt.

why is two not correct???????

 

[Guest55]

theres no way im going back looking through pages of weeks old posts to find out.
you'll just have to take my word lol.