AM2 Lighting

[Guest55]

Not in my world it's not!! Not unless a neutral is required at a switch, then fine!! But looping/jointing neutrals at every switch, No Way!! And i don't care if it's acceptable or not with BS7671....

thats because in your world materials get delivered to jobs by rickshaws or junks lol.
;-)

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I guess it's just different common practices in different geographical locations, neutrals jointed in switches is common practice here. I have nothing against it electrically and more and more switches nowadays require a neutral for small illuminating led's or neons in the switch itself. I can't ever remember having a fault caused by neutrals being jointed and it can also make for easy future extending of the light circuit if necessary.

hear hear !
;-)

 

[Engineer54]

I guess it's just different common practices in different geographical locations, neutrals jointed in switches is common practice here. I have nothing against it electrically and more and more switches nowadays require a neutral for small illuminating led's or neons in the switch itself. I can't ever remember having a fault caused by neutrals being jointed and it can also make for easy future extending of the light circuit if necessary.

Same in Cyprus Marvo, my house is all looped through the switches, where the majority of the conduits are laid in the floor screed. In other words, the ceiling conduit systems are not interlinked between the rooms as would be the case in the UK. Most installs in the UK with T&E, would be via ceiling voids etc, so every switch would require at least two cables when using a switch looping system. Back boxes can start getting pretty full when talking about up/down stairs 2 way switch positions!! Nothing against a neutral at a switch position, if it's there for a purpose, but i certainly wouldn't loop through switches as a wiring system. It has to use more cable too, than a UK conventional/typical 3 plate wiring system!!

 

[Outspoken]

utter crap lol.
;-)

That comment is UTTER CRAP Bif, I said that Neutral should not be in switches unless there is not choice...if you have an indicator in the switch, then of course you need a neutral, otherwise, in my opinion, it is a bad practice. The more this type of practice is deemed to be acceptable the more standards lower. I do know that on many job I control if anyone took a neutral to a switch without a darned good reason they would be getting that on the snag list to rewire it at their cost.

 

[KAS1]

Well said they'd be "down the road" on my jobs

 

[jc-electrical]

Thought I'd post my thoughts about the Neutrals at switches debate as this is something I raised with my tutor when doing 2391. He said it is acceptable but not preferred, I raised the point that surely it is better to have the neutral connected in an easily accessible switch than at a (very often inaccessible) junction box as so often the modern fittings do not have the room/facility to properly 3plate the feed and neutrals therefore requiring a JB.

 

[Marvo]

That comment is UTTER CRAP Bif, I said that Neutral should not be in switches unless there is not choice...if you have an indicator in the switch, then of course you need a neutral, otherwise, in my opinion, it is a bad practice. The more this type of practice is deemed to be acceptable the more standards lower. I do know that on many job I control if anyone took a neutral to a switch without a darned good reason they would be getting that on the snag list to rewire it at their cost.

Is it against the regs? If not on what grounds is it not acceptable?

 

[KAS1]

Cowboy stuff that's why

 

[Marvo]

Cowboy stuff that's why

That's an opinion and nothing more unless you give valid reasoning behind it. Just because it's not usual practice in the UK doesn't mean it's cowboy. I'm interested to know why with some technical reasons.

 

[KAS1]

If 1/10 sparks wired lighting circuits with neutrals at them for no reason, I think I'd know the Electrical Trainee lol and yes it is bad practice in the UK sackable on any decent job

That's an opinion and nothing more unless you give valid reasoning behind it. Just because it's not usual practice in the UK doesn't mean it's cowboy.

 

[Marvo]

I'm still waiting for you to tell me what regs it contravenes or put a valid electrical argument behind your opinion that it's a sackable offense.

There are good reasons to loop the supply through the switch boxes, easier fault finding, accommodating switches with built-in neon/LED indicators plus it can make future additions to the circuit easier.

 

[johnboy6083]

Horses for courses. I wire whatever is easiest, neater and cheaper for the customer. I don't have a set way of wiring lighting, it depends on what I feel.
If the blokes on here asked me to rewire something, I'd point to the spec. You can't pick and choose what you want unless you pay for it or the other company has contravened specs or regulations. The construction game doesn't work like it used to.

 

[KAS1]

Hasn't standards dropped lol

 

[Outspoken]

Is it against the regs? If not on what grounds is it not acceptable?

Marvo, just because something is not contravening the Regs does not mean it should then be deemed acceptable. No-one has said it is in breach of any regulation, however I was always taught, and have always believed that any cable at a switch which is not being used in that switch is unnecessary and bad practice as it can lead to confusion and mistakes being made.

Obviously, as i said in both my posts, there are occasions when a neutral is required in the switch, and that is fine, but using a switch to pull cable through and as a termination point for neutrals is simply a bad habit that should be regulated against in my humble opinion.

I recall a very good example of why it should not be allowed, many years ago I was asked to go and look at a fault in the house of the brother of an Artichoke from the job we were doing as his lights kept blowing, low and behold, neutral looped via the switches and at one particular switch the numpty had wired in a single gang socket beside the switch to power his ruddy fish tank, the pump was fine, but whenever the 2.0kW heater kicked in the poor 6A MCB went nuts and tripped. The fella asked if I could simply swap the MCB for a larger one as he had done this at his old house and simply put in "larger fuse wire from the socket fuse" to solve the problem!!

That my friend is why neutrals should not be in switches where they are not needed.

Marvo, could I also point out that your is SAFA, you have no standards there...muhahahahaha

 

[YoungBart]

I guess as a dramatically failing apprentice my opinion doesnt count for much but Personally I think it's a lot easier to have neutrals at the switch, simply because second fixing a switch with a few cables at it is easier than second fixing most ceiling roses etc.
I also think its slightly safer for the DIYer who when changing a light only have 3 wires to put in the correct place, as opposed to loops, neutrals switch wires and earths. And then when they swap a switch its alot simpler for them to understand.
i had this debate with an old college tutor who said I shouldn't feed switches this way as its not good practice.

 

[KAS1]

NO NO NO That's when the DIYer start switching the N, IMO only take the N at a switch if it is required , not to save money and save reaching overhead lol

I guess as a dramatically failing apprentice my opinion doesnt count for much but Personally I think it's a lot easier to have neutrals at the switch, simply because second fixing a switch with a few cables at it is easier than second fixing most ceiling roses etc.
I also think its slightly safer for the DIYer who when changing a light only have 3 wires to put in the correct place, as opposed to loops, neutrals switch wires and earths. And then when they swap a switch its alot simpler for them to understand.
i had this debate with an old college tutor who said I shouldn't feed switches this way as its not good practice.