Thanks Wolfie, at least you have some reasons that can be debated and I can assure you that the Huddersfield job was nothing to do with me :).

I can see you may have a valid argument that three or four wires in a choc block connector might not be ideal, especially the cheap ones where the screw tightens directly onto the wires but any suitable Wago or Line connector shouldn't be a worry with multiple wires in it.

Thank you, at least you have the ability to read and understand another's point of view unlike ...removed
 
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@Jay Sparks

Easier to test at switch yes, but that is not the point that the test should be made at, and some of the projects I have worked on (and run lol) have requested complete test certificates Including Neutral readings which Cannot be done correctly if it is 'spider'd' off of every light switch rather than going around the lights.
 
Marvo, I would strongly urge you to stop at this point. SA does in fact have electrical regulations, I am sure I could make a few phones calls and get any number of SAFA sparks that I know here in the UK on this forum to tear your comments to bits as they are some of the most professional sparks I have met in recent years. If you statement that you are in fact a plasterer and not a spark is true then you should not eneter into this discussion except as a mod to ensure it maintains civility and no-one breaches forum rules..
I was being unnecessarily sarcastic, I'm an engineer 15 years registered in SA (PrENG).
 
Ns in switches has had a few threads over the last year or so.
At first, I was a bit skeptical, but after reading those discussions, it makes perfect sense to me (depending on the situation).



Still waiting for the reasonS why it's 'Bad Practice'!

Try reading the posts in the thread Archy instead of being swayed by arguments put forward by Domestic course trainees and Electrical Trainee sparks!! Sheesh..:)

Reasons, OK, clearly not definitive, but these reasons are why I personally feel it bad practice UNLESS required.


  1. The neutral in the back of the switch creates a possible confusion for untrained people who may interfere with installations (domestic) and if they replace switches etc could very easily create a dangerous situation that results in a fault or a potentially dangerous shock hazard.
  2. Extra cores in the back of a switch patress or back box creates a situation where it may be damaged by the simple task of putting the faceplate onto the patress/back box, thus causing a fault.
  3. Untrained people may use the neutral to install accessories onto the lighting circuit that should not be so installed, thus introducing a potentially dangerous situation that could lead to electrical faults, increased fire or shock hazards.
  4. Untrained people who replace switches for "decorative" units may inadvertently switch the neutral instead of the line conductor.

All of the above is especially real hazards when you have large premises with "complicated" switch arrangements caused by multiple stair runs and landings where they are switched at multiple points and perhaps multi-gang switches have switches fed from more than one circuit, as is highly probable on multi-level floored houses (town houses).

I can appreciate others see this different, but for me, as a fully qualified, apprentice trained, professionally accredited highly experience Electrical Engineer I will always see this as a bad practice way of wiring unless the switch concerned has a good reason for a neutral, such as it has an illuminated surround or neon of some type.
 
Try reading the posts in the thread Archy instead of being swayed by arguments put forward by Domestic course trainees and Electrical Trainee sparks!! Sheesh..:)

Reasons, OK, clearly not definitive, but these reasons are why I personally feel it bad practice UNLESS required.


  1. The neutral in the back of the switch creates a possible confusion for untrained people who may interfere with installations (domestic) and if they replace switches etc could very easily create a dangerous situation that results in a fault or a potentially dangerous shock hazard.
  2. Extra cores in the back of a switch patress or back box creates a situation where it may be damaged by the simple task of putting the faceplate onto the patress/back box, thus causing a fault.
  3. Untrained people may use the neutral to install accessories onto the lighting circuit that should not be so installed, thus introducing a potentially dangerous situation that could lead to electrical faults, increased fire or shock hazards.
  4. Untrained people who replace switches for "decorative" units may inadvertently switch the neutral instead of the line conductor.

All of the above is especially real hazards when you have large premises with "complicated" switch arrangements caused by multiple stair runs and landings where they are switched at multiple points and perhaps multi-gang switches have switches fed from more than one circuit, as is highly probable on multi-level floored houses (town houses).

I can appreciate others see this different, but for me, as a fully qualified, apprentice trained, professionally accredited highly experience Electrical Engineer I will always see this as a bad practice way of wiring unless the switch concerned has a good reason for a neutral, such as it has an illuminated surround or neon of some type.


Good answer O, BUT....

1, 3 & 4...we don't design and install electrical systems for untrained people to mess around with.
2, use a deeper box!

Re the rest, can't comment of bigger installs myself!

I think this is a case of we'll agree to disagree! :-)
 
..................

  1. The neutral in the back of the switch creates a possible confusion for untrained people who may interfere with installations (domestic) and if they replace switches etc could very easily create a dangerous situation that results in a fault or a potentially dangerous shock hazard. I don't see any reason to start designing electrical installations to accommodate the fiddling of untrained personnel. Once you in an area that requires a tool to access this would never normally be a design consideration so I don't see why it should be in this case.
  2. Extra cores in the back of a switch patress or back box creates a situation where it may be damaged by the simple task of putting the faceplate onto the patress/back box, thus causing a fault. Granted some backboxes will have a limitation to the number of cables or joints that they can reasonably accommodate. This might be a limiting factor if it's an existing installation with low profile boxes but any new build could have sensibly sized back boxes.
  3. Untrained people may use the neutral to install accessories onto the lighting circuit that should not be so installed, thus introducing a potentially dangerous situation that could lead to electrical faults, increased fire or shock hazards. See reply to point 1
  4. Untrained people who replace switches for "decorative" units may inadvertently switch the neutral instead of the line conductor.See reply to point 1
  1. Please see replies in red
*edit* It might look like we're in cahoots but I didn't copy my answers from Archie, honest.
 
I think most see it as bad practice and "what if someone messes with it" but the same can be said about driving....I bet we have all done 35/40 mph in a 30 zone, or even 80/90 on the motor way!!!!! Its all good until you hit something or someone, so why do it????
 
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