AM2 Lighting

[Marvo]

Thats a bit rich coming from a SAFA whose a muck spreader ...

I'm not sure I qualify as a SAFA, I was born on Gibraltar and grew up mostly in W Germany

 

[Wolfie708]

@Jay Sparks

Easier to test at switch yes, but that is not the point that the test should be made at, and some of the projects I have worked on (and run lol) have requested complete test certificates Including Neutral readings which Cannot be done correctly if it is 'spider'd' off of every light switch rather than going around the lights.

Good answer O, BUT....

1, 3 & 4...we don't design and install electrical systems for untrained people to mess around with.
2, use a deeper box!

Re the rest, can't comment of bigger installs myself!

I think this is a case of we'll agree to disagree!

To you, read my explanation quoted above, and just FYI, I Can talk about Much bigger installation before you throw your teddy again

1. Please see replies in red

*edit* It might look like we're in cahoots but I didn't copy my answers from Archie, honest.

Again, read my quote above.

Putting all opinions of which is easier etc, the reason I give above Is valid as it does Not allow for the furthest (longest run) Neutral to be at light number 5 for example, when the circuit has 15 lights on it, as light 15 should be the end of line for the Neutral conductor as this is the end of line (longest run) for the Line and CPC as well.

 

[Outspoken]

1. Please see replies in red

*edit* It might look like we're in cahoots but I didn't copy my answers from Archie, honest.

They are not reasons that I feel are acceptable because we MUST take into account that domestic installations are open to abuse and we should do all we can at the design and installation phase to reduce the potential for harm or danger to be reduced to the absolute practicable minimum.

 

[Dcf]

Sheesh what kind a debate do we have here.
i see no problem personally in a neutral at the switch.
all the problems that outspoken highlighted can be attributed to the loop in at light method also... So whats the better system then?
ill tell you .whatever system is the easiest.
wiring in containment in singles yes I agree ns at lights feeds at switches
but we are talking twin here.
even a lot of new commercial stuff is done in lsf t&e and I'll bet you the neutrals will be at the switch most of the time.
Is it just me that is a bit disturbed that the op is doing his am2 and needs to ask how to wire a basic lighting circuit?
my am2 lighting was in steel conduit if I can mind that far back correctly

 

[Silly Sausage]

I'm not sure I qualify as a SAFA, I was born on Gibraltar and grew up mostly in W Germany

I love Gib!

After being nearly raped and robbed in Morocco, we escaped over the Straights to sanctuary.
Had a hair cut, wondered the streets without being told to F off, won about £60 on a fruity machine....
Ace place!

 

[Spudnik]

Putting all opinions of which is easier etc, the reason I give above Is valid as it does Not allow for the furthest (longest run) Neutral to be at light number 5 for example, when the circuit has 15 lights on it, as light 15 should be the end of line for the Neutral conductor as this is the end of line (longest run) for the Line and CPC as well.

Why not?

The last switch with the circuit will be the furthest point, and if one wanted to test it further still, put the switch in the on position and test at the last fitting.

 

[Spudnik]

I love Gib!

After being nearly raped and robbed in Morocco...

You sound almost disappointed

 

[Outspoken]

I'm not sure I qualify as a SAFA, I was born on Gibraltar and grew up mostly in W Germany

So does that make you a " Failed ---- Daygo" ?

 

[Silly Sausage]

You sound almost disappointed

If I was allowed to swear...


The drugs they gave me, a smidge more, they could've done anything they loked!

 

[Outspoken]

Sheesh what kind a debate do we have here.
i see no problem personally in a neutral at the switch.
all the problems that outspoken highlighted can be attributed to the loop in at light method also... So whats the better system then?
ill tell you .whatever system is the easiest.
wiring in containment in singles yes I agree ns at lights feeds at switches
but we are talking twin here.
even a lot of new commercial stuff is done in lsf t&e and I'll bet you the neutrals will be at the switch most of the time.
Is it just me that is a bit disturbed that the op is doing his am2 and needs to ask how to wire a basic lighting circuit?
my am2 lighting was in steel conduit if I can mind that far back correctly

Utter Gonads.

You would never get away with Neutrals at switches on a commercial or industrial installation regardless of the cable you used.

If you wire in conduit then you use the 2 plate method unless there is a good reason not too, thus no neutral at switch.

If you wire in T&E or any other multi-cored cable then you use the 3 plate method, all neutrals at the ceiling rose/light and the only cables at the switch are a live feed and switch line.

The excuse that it is easier to wire T&E with the neutral loop method holds about as much water as a bottomless bucket, you have to take cables to the light/ceiling rose anyway from the switch, so this is a lame excuse. You should only have one cable at the switch unless it's a multi-gang switch.

It is laziness borne out of bad practice and nothing anyone says here will convince me differently, people are just finding poor excuses to justify what is bad workmanship and sloppy attitude by saying "We don't design and install for safety"...crock of puke.

 

[Wolfie708]

Why not?

The last switch with the circuit will be the furthest point, and if one wanted to test it further still, put the switch in the on position and test at the last fitting.

What do you mean 'IF'??????????????

Maybe the problem here is that just because it is T+E we are talking about you all seem to think it has to be in a house?

The OP did not say it was for a house, so it could be anywhere, and that can and does include a system wired in T+E that can have the switch for lights many many many metres away, and also in a different part of the building.

Regardless of the OP's initial questions though, the neutral conductor should not spidewr off, t off, call it whatever you wish to, in a correctly installed lighting circuit.

If you cannot understand that, then you need to do some reading and swat up on your regs and wiring standards.

Just for your information, the only time when it is allowable to Not test at the fitting is if said fitting(s) are installed using a flexible/manufactured lighting system/installation etc...... IE a lighting control pack that uses plug in modules for the actual light fittings to connect to.

 

[Sintra]

Right ok I am and always have been in favour of a 3 plate wiring system when I am unfortunate enough to have to use T&E.

So to all those slating neutrals at the switches can any of you actually give a reg number that this contravenes.

Given the right circumstances as previously stated eg downlights I can't see a problem.

 

[Wolfie708]

Right ok I am and always have been in favour of a 3 plate wiring system when I am unfortunate enough to have to use T&E.

So to all those slating neutrals at the switches can any of you actually give a reg number that this contravenes.

Given the right circumstances as previously stated eg downlights I can't see a problem.

Downlights are not a problem as the cable/wire that comes from the connector/joint is not the neutral circuit supply conductor.

The same goes for lamp posts and suchlike where you can test at the cut-off at the post base as the flex is not part of the neutral circuit supply.

EDIT As for the rules and regulations, it's late here but if you really want references to it I will gladly get them for you in next day or so? (maybe that will make people believe I actually know what I am talking about??? lol)

 

[Spudnik]

What do you mean 'IF'?????????????? "Testing should be carried out at the furthest point of the circuit"

Maybe the problem here is that just because it is T+E we are talking about you all seem to think it has to be in a house?

The OP did not say it was for a house, so it could be anywhere, and that can and does include a system wired in T+E that can have the switch for lights many many many metres away, and also in a different part of the building.

Regardless of the OP's initial questions though, the neutral conductor "should not" spidewr off, t off, call it whatever you wish to, in a correctly installed lighting circuit. Could you post the reg that states this?

If you cannot understand that, then you need to do some reading and swat up on your regs and wiring standards.

Just for your information, the only time when it is allowable to Not test at the fitting is if said fitting(s) are installed using a flexible/manufactured lighting system/installation etc...... IE a lighting control pack that uses plug in modules for the actual light fittings to connect to. Also, could you post a reg for this?

My bold, but i may hve had too much to drink.

 

[Jay Sparks]

Right ok I am and always have been in favour of a 3 plate wiring system when I am unfortunate enough to have to use T&E.

So to all those slating neutrals at the switches can any of you actually give a reg number that this contravenes.

Given the right circumstances as previously stated eg downlights I can't see a problem.

There isnt any Sintra.....I think its just most people's preference!! As I said earlier, I will always, where possible, take the feed, inc the neutral to the light fitting/module!!!!! But....if there is a reg that says I CAN NOT take the neutral to the switch, then, if I NEED too, I will!! No problem!!