Another sad reason Part P just doesnt work

[jjnr78]

An old customer asked me if I could sign off another contractors work that was carried out in their property, so that they could achieve Building Regs sign off. (They used a main contractor for the whole build hence why we weren't involved). I let her know how part P works with self certification etc and the proper routes i.e. ask the local authority to appoint a contractor etc etc, so that the instruction lies with the local authority. She did this to the tune of £250. In return she received 2 EICR certs for the 2 properties; both CUs were 10-way and she has results for 3 circuits on each, so roughly 30%. The original installation was never tested, so the inspector had no paperwork to cross reference results. Whatsmore, of the circuits that were inspected and tested, there are departures that need to be rectified- hence why i was called and how I can see the reports. The inspector was there for under 2hrs, never inspected the origin of the installation (as he didnt have a key to unlock it) and so falsified those results and also missed glaringly obvious issues e.g. twin + cpc sub main 16mm, buried in the fabric, no RCD protection, no calculation on size of earth, though he did point out the 'earthing conductor is undersized, requires 16sqmm item. Surely if you sample test, you increase if you start finding problems??

What gets me is that I would never only test 30% of new work that I or my team installs and sign it off, nor can you for that matter. More than that I would never sign off, using a 30% yard stick, another contractors work without a full schedule of results and perhaps seeing the 1st fix etc. So how can the local authority instruct this contractor to only inspect 30%? If thats the case, i might as well stop my fully approved contractor status and get them to do it as we obviouslty present a full schedule of results that takes 3 times as long!

I've explained my concerns to the client but she has vehemently told me not to flag my issues with the local authority as she feels my way will end up costing her more money and time on a situation that has cursed her already over the last 2 years. so, no come back for the contractor or the local authority and i look like the bad guy who is trying to squeeze the client for extra work, before I've even visited! I've never managed to get a customer to complain to a governing body of the council when faced with these issues, so it will just keep happening.

From a business viewpoint, perhaps thats why others are so much cheaper than me on EICR, as we just arent doing the same job.

I'm really looking forward to taking over this family business......

 

[Guest111]

reminds me of a conversation I had years ago with a chap from building control who told me that when there was only limited things they inspected everyone knew what was right and what wasn,t ,now he said "with part l ,m p, etc we all know little bits of everything and nobody knows it all" and they call that progress?

 

[sedgy34]

if you cant beat them join them lol (joke)

 

[Guest111]

As mentioned previously the policing of Part P cannot be managed without customer co-operation. If the customer doesn't know about Part P then they are unaware that it needs registering with LABC unless building control are already involved with building work and also that a EIC should be issued. To be honest probably 90% of customers aren't even bothered.

exactly,had a right do with a builder who wired an extention made a b of it told client part p didnt apply then went huffy when I told him it wanted ripping out in front of customer and yes it did need a part p,maybe building control need to be clearer in telling public what is needed when they apply for planning.

 

[Vito04]

Recently an NICEIC inspector told me that although GN3 states 100% testing and 10% sampling, the percentage is what ever the customer is prepared to pay for and agree to as long as you state it on the report.

 

[jjnr78]

and even if it was a periodic...still wouldn`t have been right as when sampling you start with 10%....any crap you up it to 50% and so on....

apparently sampling is dependant upon enginnering judgement...so just another grey area. but one thing that it does state is that if issues are found then you increase the sample until you stop seeing problems. lack of education within the camp, let alone outside!!!

 

[jjnr78]

Recently an NICEIC inspector told me that although GN3 states 100% testing and 10% sampling, the percentage is what ever the customer is prepared to pay for and agree to as long as you state it on the report.

i relly hope that that was a joke (though i fear the worst). its about engineering judgement, and i'm not sure GN3 states those terms in the latest vversion but i havent got it to hand. The point to this case was that BC believed that their appointed contractor was inspecting and testing 100% of newly installed circuits etc for Part P, but it would seem for this job at least, this contractor thought 30% was good enough. £250 was an easy 1.5 hrs work!! whats worse is they still didnt get it right!

 

[Vito04]

Personally, I would never do less than 100% testing on any EICR but unfortunately what i said about the inspector is true. Afterall NIC developed the worthless Visual inspection report

 

[Spudnik]

Forgive me, but i havent read the whole thread..

However....

If there is building control involved, it is THEIR responsibility to ensure compliance however they see fit.

Have a read of sec 1.24 Part P.

 

[DurhamSparky]

you read the part p booklet!! ...... must have been bored.. lol

 

[GLENNSPARK]

you should test 100% of the install on a PIR....you save time over an initial verification by doing an R1 R2 and a Zs at the furthest point on a radial as for ring finals....well it dont take long to whip round them....its on sampling where you start at 10%...but i tend to decide within a few minutes of being in that property just where on the percentage scale i`m gonna start....like some places just dont `feelright`...and you know what....they usually arn`t....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

one i look for is socket fronts....like you may have 3 MKs in a room..then there will be a tenby or something....summat thats been changed....i go straight for that one....

 

[Vito04]

Just checked the NIC book on periodic inspections and their three star inspection service states '30% inspection, testing and additional items' additional items include earth continuity of all accessable exposed-extraneous conductive parts, PAT testing, fixed equipment, load measurement, terminal temperatures and produce a circuit chart. Without the additionals only 20% is required. However, as you are aware if you find non compliances these percentages need to be increased.

In my opinion stick to 100% that way the only comebacks are reworks

 

[oldtimer]

I was called to a house that just had a PIR done and found 4 faulty single sockets the tenant reported this to the "inspector" and when I contacted the letting agent I was told only 10% of the sockets were tested. So I said well 2 in the livingroom were u/s and the one in the childs bedroom had a neutral missing and the last one was right next to the DB ????? Mind its not that bad I got the job to change them plus I sent the Zs test results for all of the flats sockets and when they said that must have taken time I said no actually 15 minutes tops

 

[Vito04]

you should test 100% of the install on a PIR....you save time over an initial verification by doing an R1 R2 and a Zs at the furthest point on a radial as for ring finals....well it dont take long to whip round them....its on sampling where you start at 10%...but i tend to decide within a few minutes of being in that property just where on the percentage scale i`m gonna start....like some places just dont `feelright`...and you know what....they usually arn`t....

Totally agree, after a short conversation with the customer and removal of a few faceplates you get a feeling for the quality

 

[robsparky1975]

And When people are offering to do a full EICR for £100 and are gone after 1 hour you know something funny is going on,whats your name luv,tick box,tick tick,ok there you go thats £100 please kerching.