Approach for downlight install requests

[JohnS888]

Hi All

Just wondering how you guys approach requests for downlight installs. Upto now I only attempt them if have access to floor boards above or the ceiling has been temporarily dropped so have easy wiring access. If ceiling is the more modern suspended type ceiling obviously not a problem to wire them. But how do you access this to the point you feel comfortable going ahead with it. Concern is take on a job that appears to be suspended and has ease of wiring start chopping away for downlight holes and then find there's either wooden supports or some sort of hindrance for the wiring

 

[buzzlightyear]

same old story when you need to put down light in and you cant access the floor boards up stairs
with out taking up carpets and removal of floor boards ,so you tell the customer start moving
the gear up stairs or work below and cop for the consequences . damage after . some customer think we like merlin ,did you see that flash all in now.

 

[Dustydazzler]

There is no easy answer , you literally have to check in advance to see what you are up against ...

 

[JohnS888]

same old story when you need to put down light in and you cant access the floor boards up stairs
with out taking up carpets and removal of floor boards ,so you tell the customer start moving
the gear up stairs or work below and cop for the consequences . damage after . some customer think we like merlin ,did you see that flash all in now.

Very true Buzz lol alot of customers do seem to want us to magically make electricity appear in places where there's just no realistic possibility.

There is no easy answer , you literally have to check in advance to see what you are up against ...

I think so Dusty. Getting quite a few requests for these lately this one is in a ground floor flat so no option of access from above. I think I'm inclined to not even bother with them unless they can clarify downlights been installed in other areas of home/neighbours property or can ensure I've got some sort of decent inspection access to assess construction of ceiling.

 

[SJD]

If there is no access via the floor above, then I typically cut holes as needed in the ceiling.

Usually 100mm dia. holes, large enough to get a right-angle drill into the ceiling void. And save the plasterboard discs to replace afterwards (with small timber batten to secure). Then either very neat/careful filling of the gap round the disc, or the customer just has the whole ceiling skimmed.

If not being skimmed, I'll try to replace each disc in the hole it came from, lining up any artex pattern.

Obviously I explain this option, and the customer needs to be happy with it.

 

[JohnS888]

If there is no access via the floor above, then I typically cut holes as needed in the ceiling.

Usually 100mm dia. holes, large enough to get a right-angle drill into the ceiling void. And save the plasterboard discs to replace afterwards (with small timber batten to secure). Then either very neat/careful filling of the gap round the disc, or the customer just has the whole ceiling skimmed.

If not being skimmed, I'll try to replace each disc in the hole it came from, lining up any artex pattern.

Obviously I explain this option, and the customer needs to be happy with it.

Thanks SJ it's a good way to approach it if make customer aware there's possibility of quite a bit of patching. My other concern is possibility of drilling through a a cable that's been clipped to joists serving either the same flat or one above. Seems like you've managed to escape this fate so far

 

[loz2754]

Artisan Electrics has a good video demonstrating one method. Watch from about 14 minutes in...

 

[JohnS888]

Artisan Electrics has a good video demonstrating one method. Watch from about 14 minutes in...

Cheers mate will give it a watch tomorrow

 

[SJD]

Thanks SJ it's a good way to approach it if make customer aware there's possibility of quite a bit of patching. My other concern is possibility of drilling through a a cable that's been clipped to joists serving either the same flat or one above. Seems like you've managed to escape this fate so far

If drilling into a joist where you can't see the other side, you really do have to think about where cables and pipes are likely to be. Especially pipes, like central heating.

Sometimes I will cut an extra access hole rather than risk drilling somewhere I think there will be pipes.

I'd also mention the cabling route between rows of downlights doesn't always have to be in the same room. Sometimes you can take the cables out e.g. into the landing above, if there is easier floor access, through several joists, then back into the room. Obviously this depends on the house construction.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Some great advice above ...

be very careful when drilling holes when you can’t see the reverse side

also yes you can wire one room via fishing cables from another , this often Stops the need for ripping up floorin unnecessary, and usually only uses an extra few metres of cable which is cheap as Chips

 

[Zerax]

I often try to persuade them away from downlights... awful things ! I'm not a fan.

 

[ferg]

As above really, I'll almost always cut holes either side of the joist to make sure I don't find services with my drill bit. I also have a ferret inspection camera that has paid for itself many times over for this kind of thing.

A bit of imagination with cable routing goes a long way too.

As long as the customer is aware of the possible worst case scenario then all is good.

I'll patch the plasterboard but not fill afterwards, I leave that to a decorator or plasterer.

The only time I won't go near it is if it's a lath and plaster ceiling.

 

[pirate]

The ferret camera is a brilliant bit of kit, but if you don't have one, simply sticking your mobile phone up a downlighter hole will help to give you a view of how the joists run, and whether there are low height noggins etc in the way.
Also, if installing downlights downstairs, take a look at the upstairs rooms. Nobody wants their bedroom carpets and floors lifted, but many houses have built-in wardrobes. Lift the carpet or whatever in the wardrobe and see which way the floorboards run so you get an idea of which way the joists run. If it's chipboard, cut an access panel, if it's boards, cut a couple out, then look underneath to see the run of the joists and the "clear runs" between them. Then plan your downlight holes accordingly. Careful measurement will allow you to insert a thin screwdriver or somesuch from below, and if you can see it from above the job's a good one. Making good the floor in a wardrobe is not too difficult and much less hassle.

 

[Zerax]

If it's chipboard, cut an access panel

I'm a fan of the Armeg system that cuts the hole with a rebate around it for one of their drop in plugs... easiest and quickest way I know.

 

[JohnS888]

If drilling into a joist where you can't see the other side, you really do have to think about where cables and pipes are likely to be. Especially pipes, like central heating.

Sometimes I will cut an extra access hole rather than risk drilling somewhere I think there will be pipes.

I'd also mention the cabling route between rows of downlights doesn't always have to be in the same room. Sometimes you can take the cables out e.g. into the landing above, if there is easier floor access, through several joists, then back into the room. Obviously this depends on the house construction.

Thanks again SJ