Are you still fitting plastic CUs......

[Lazlo]

or have you begun to install metal re:amendment 3...

 

[Lazlo]

Had two British Standard RCBO's fail on me this week, one went bang in my face then unsurprisingly failed to work the other just failed to energise the circuit altogether. Think I now know what BS stands for. The quality of these components is poor. I'm thinking the one that went bang could have started a fire in some instances. When I returned the second one the guy said he'd had four back in total. Dodgy batch, who checks this stuff??

I have no doubt there are people working that do not have the correct skills and/or education and I've seen plenty of burnt ends in DBs but I do think there is a lot of rubbish being manufactured and this may also play a part in the whole Keith Flint Distribution Board saga. More stringent training and better designed/manufactured gear.....in an ideal world.

Right I'm off to buy a 8mm thick cast iron DB which contains MCBs you can get in a cracker at christmas.

 

[Charlie_]

Had two British Standard RCBO's fail on me this week, one went bang in my face then unsurprisingly failed to work the other just failed to energise the circuit altogether. Think I now know what BS stands for. The quality of these components is poor. I'm thinking the one that went bang could have started a fire in some instances. When I returned the second one the guy said he'd had four back in total. Dodgy batch, who checks this stuff??

I have no doubt there are people working that do not have the correct skills and/or education and I've seen plenty of burnt ends in DBs but I do think there is a lot of rubbish being manufactured and this may also play a part in the whole Keith Flint Distribution Board saga. More stringent training and better designed/manufactured gear.....in an ideal world.

Right I'm off to buy a 8mm thick cast iron DB which contains MCBs you can get in a cracker at christmas.

What make?? Do you have the batch number?

 

[ipf]

What make?? Do you have the batch number?

The christmas crackers....or the 8mm cast iron box???

 

[Midwest]

There seems to be a large number against this new regulation..
Does anybody have any figures as to the number of objections prior to its introduction?
Pethaps it should have never been introduced and also why don't we start a petition to get it scrapped

I think your time to do so is running out. Saw a Wylex metal CU (aka Amd 3) on the shelves of my wholesaler yesterday, pretty dam ugly too. I've seen a brochure for Crabtree one as well (same group). I rang MK yesterday on an unconnected matter, and their example is being released in a month or two.

Think the Wylex one (dual RCD), will retail for £80-90 + vat, that didn't include mcb's, so about £150. Couldn't agree more about the poor quality & design of existing CU (insulated & metal clad), and the opportunity has been missed to completely transform these devices; why does the end user have to install or assemble in such a way, to maintain the IP rating, for example.

What's going to happen with plastic Wago din rail enclosure or similar, for consumer unit moves. Suppose that's not classed as containing switch gear, but often sits about CU and is full of cable connections to be left lose. Crazy.

Have the BYB in front of me now. Can't be bothered to type out reg. 421.1.201 (cos the way this forum window is functioning), but note its a UK 200 number and note1 states; 'Ferrous metal e.g. steel, is deemed to be an example of a non-combustible material', or note2 be enclosed in cabinet....blah blah, complying with reg 132.12, suitable access etc.

I think it's a fait accompli, and metal it is (until the 18th Ed?!). Wait until the customers find out. They won't want last years model, when they can get next years model now.

 

[Charlie_]

The relevent part of the AMD 3 draft that went out to public comment is as below....

421.1.5 Where electrical equipment in a single location contains flammable liquid in significant quantity,

adequate precautions shall be taken to

421.1.200 Switchgear assemblies including consumer units shall:

(i) have their enclosure manufactured from non-combustible or not readily combustible material, or
(ii) be enclosed in a cabinet or enclosure constructed of non-combustible or not readily combustible material.

NOTE 1:NOTE 2
Where no product standard exists, the materials of an enclosure shall withstand the highest temperature likely to beproduced by the electrical equipment in normal use

Ferrous metal e.g. steel is deemed to be an example of a non-combustible material


For the purposes of this regulation insulating material e.g. plastic meeting a 960 oC glow-wire flammability test as defined in BS EN 60695-2-11 is considered to be an example of a not readily combustible material.


Materials used for the construction of enclosures of electrical equipment shall comply with the resistance to heat and fire requirements in an appropriate product standard.


Standards are (or should be) written by industry by consensus where consensus isdefined as:
‘General agreement, characterized by the absence of sustained opposition or substantial opposition by any important part of the concerned interests andby a process that involves seeking to take into account the views of all partiesconcerned and to reconcile any conflicting arguments.’

The new amandment is not the same as what went out to public comment and it also doesn't seem to take into account our views and opinions on the matter..
There seems to be no documents available with regard to the general consensus from the DPC.

I myself will not be fitting metal consumer units unless it is to meet certain criteria based on its environment.

 

[Charlie_]

Hmmmm that's not how it looked before posting

 

[Charlie_]

Deleted

#95 edited

 

[LeeH]

a Part P qualified competent person is be required to install and /or sign-off the installation

Part P qualification?

 

[Engineer54]

Part P qualification?

It was the introduction of the Part P providers that has undoubtedly been one of the main culprits that brought us to this situation you now find yourself in with regard to fire proof CU/DB's....

And here they are being consulted on this issue, ....a case of the blind leading the blind!!

 

[GB.Kayak]

The relevent part of the AMD 3 draft that went out to public comment is as below....

421.1.5 Where electrical equipment in a single location contains flammable liquid in significant quantity,

adequate precautions shall be taken to

421.1.200 Switchgear assemblies including consumer units shall:

(i) have their enclosure manufactured from non-combustible or not readily combustible material, or
(ii) be enclosed in a cabinet or enclosure constructed of non-combustible or not readily combustible material.

NOTE 1:NOTE 2
Where no product standard exists, the materials of an enclosure shall withstand the highest temperature likely to beproduced by the electrical equipment in normal use

Ferrous metal e.g. steel is deemed to be an example of a non-combustible material


For the purposes of this regulation insulating material e.g. plastic meeting a 960 oC glow-wire flammability test as defined in BS EN 60695-2-11 is considered to be an example of a not readily combustible material.


Materials used for the construction of enclosures of electrical equipment shall comply with the resistance to heat and fire requirements in an appropriate product standard.


Standards are (or should be) written by industry by consensus where consensus isdefined as:
‘General agreement, characterized by the absence of sustained opposition or substantial opposition by any important part of the concerned interests andby a process that involves seeking to take into account the views of all partiesconcerned and to reconcile any conflicting arguments.’

The new amandment is not the same as what went out to public comment and it also doesn't seem to take into account our views and opinions on the matter..
There seems to be no documents available with regard to the general consensus from the DPC.

I myself will not be fitting metal consumer units unless it is to meet certain criteria based on its environment.

C,

Thanks for this ... I have not personally followed the whole debacle from its inception ... just got involved with the debate after the 'empty stable' was found! It is useful to see another of the steps on the road to the current situation and to surmise as to the parties who produced this draft for comment and those who influenced its final text. Unfortunately 'design by committee' rarely produces a beautiful beast unless there is a strong commonly held vision of the required result and common motivation to achieve that end. Furthermore, unless a holistic view is taken of cause and effect, it is unlikely that treating the symptoms of the disease will cure its root!

 

[Charlie_]

C,

Thanks for this ... I have not personally followed the whole debacle from its inception ... just got involved with the debate after the 'empty stable' was found! It is useful to see another of the steps on the road to the current situation and to surmise as to the parties who produced this draft for comment and those who influenced its final text. Unfortunately 'design by committee' rarely produces a beautiful beast unless there is a strong commonly held vision of the required result and common motivation to achieve that end. Furthermore, unless a holistic view is taken of cause and effect, it is unlikely that treating the symptoms of the disease will cure its root!

If you wish to take a look at the draft that went out for public comment it is still available to view;

BS 7671:2008 Amendment 3 DPC - IET Org

 

[valleybilly]

Make Domestic premises have the same Included Reg regarding fire saftey as below then Job Done !!!!!!!!
[h=2]Residential premises such as care homes[/h] The regulation is not intended to apply to consumer units and similar switchgear assemblies in residential care homes or other premises not intended for household use. The concerns leading to the Regulation 421.1.201 being introduced related specifically to domestic premises, which are not covered by fire safety legislation in the way that premises such as care homes are. The regulation therefore uses the term ‘domestic (household) premises’.

Wiring Matters interviewed Charlie Pugsley, London Fire Brigade investigator, about the fire-related changes made by Amendment 3.



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• New non-combustible enclosure requirement for consumer units (516 k)

 

[Eddiesparks]

How about plastic CU with a fire hood??!!