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Not ideal I know put lost count how many times I have come across a large flat CU fed via a 32 amp Mcb that has never tripped.
 
Nuisance tripping.

Best practice would be that the lights would be on separate circuits not dependent on the same breaker.

Kitchen sockets would have their own circuit and so would upstairs and downstairs.

20 double socket outlets could potentially pull 520A, even allowing for diversity this would be an issue.

Perhaps if I am wrong someone could justify why this arrangement would comply with current regs?

The same way it complied with the regs in force when it was originally installed, since it was installed how many times has this circuit come close to drawing 520A I bet it very rarely draws more than 5% of that

This is what I thought and was looking for re-assurance which was provided thanks to telectix.

I am not comfortable at the thought of Mum ironing in the kitchen whilst making a brew, washing machine loaded and running perhaps dishwasher too. Daughter in her bedroom (heated by a portable radiator) using her hairdryer, Son gaming in his bedroom (Also heated by a portable radiator). Dad down the pub doing what most blokes should be doing whilst the brood are wasting his hard earned!

You paint a very good picture of appliance use but does it ever happen the way you describe

All on a 32A breaker.

So what is the existing over current protection a rusty nail? or is it a piece of 30A fuse wire in a carrier that shows no signs of it ever blowing

20 double sockets fully loaded to their rated current would total 400A not 560A, BS1363 twin socket is rated to 20A.

Not sure where the 560A came into it but in my house my sockets can take a plug fitted with a 13A fuse. My kettle is rated at 3000W.

Now in theory if I plugged 40 of these kettles into the circuit the demand would be:

40 X 13 = 520.

Obviously the breaker would trip.


Thanks to all for your input.

I am now officially bored with this thread.

This comment says a lot about you and come to think about so does this thread


Too many on here take on a simple job and seem to find / create problems that don't and never did exist
 
Hi Guys,


Just been to quote for a consumer unit change.


Bonding is good, Zs is good, Seven circuits:


Shower, no problems foreseen.


Cooker, no problems foreseen.


All Sockets main house on one Ring, I am not comfortable with one 32A RCBO protecting sockets in kitchen, upstairs and downstairs (20 in total). I have advised that at least the kitchen needs to be on its own circuit.


Garage conversion separate Ring, no problems foreseen.


All lights main house on one radial (7 in total), obviously not upto current regs but not an issue in terms of load.


Garage conversion lights, no problems foreseen.


Alarm same circuit, no problems foreseen.


Unfortunately couple don’t want to pay for the extra work or disturb the decorative state. Replacing the current re-wirable bakerlite board with a fully populated RCBO board would obviously make the whole installation much safer.


Would I be wrong to connect the main house ring to the new board as it stands?


Comments/advice would be much appreciated.


Cheers
Why? I have 30 on one ring in my house and it is on a board with no RCD protection, works lovely, I bet I don't pull 15 amps, diversity works as well now as it did before the IET decided to frighten us all with figures most find confusing. Obviously the chance of nusience tripping is evident, and I do understand your point there.
 
This comment says a lot about you and come to think about so does this thread


Too many on here take on a simple job and seem to find / create problems that don't and never did exist


If being thorough creates doubts, and I seek re-assurance I'll carry on.

Ask a question and be a fool for a minute, don't ask and remain a fool permanently!

Over caution never killed anyone!
 
[QUOTE
I am now officially bored with this thread.[/QUOTE
You started it. Get some more experiance before you start working in peoples homes. And listen to the guys on here they know their stuff.
 
Re that 520 amps malarkey and using that logic. We have an RFC with a potential draw on it of 156A in the kitchen which is on a 32A RCBO. Should I worry?
 
Hi Guys,


Just been to quote for a consumer unit change.


Bonding is good, Zs is good, Seven circuits:


Shower, no problems foreseen.


Cooker, no problems foreseen.


All Sockets main house on one Ring, I am not comfortable with one 32A RCBO protecting sockets in kitchen, upstairs and downstairs (20 in total). I have advised that at least the kitchen needs to be on its own circuit.


Garage conversion separate Ring, no problems foreseen.


All lights main house on one radial (7 in total), obviously not upto current regs but not an issue in terms of load.


Garage conversion lights, no problems foreseen.


Alarm same circuit, no problems foreseen.


Unfortunately couple don’t want to pay for the extra work or disturb the decorative state. Replacing the current re-wirable bakerlite board with a fully populated RCBO board would obviously make the whole installation much safer.


Would I be wrong to connect the main house ring to the new board as it stands?


Comments/advice would be much appreciated.


Cheers

Gosh, you've taken a bit of a bashing on this thread haven't you MB! :6:

Anyway, some of the guys who have responded really do have a huge amount of experience so try and stay cool and listen to them.

The thread by Murdoch giving you a link to the 'best practice guide number 2 - Consumer unit replacement n domestic and similar premises' is definitely worth reading as it will answer most of the questions which have been raised in this thread. Best Practice Guides - Electrical Safety First

As others have said, it is common to have one ring (I do) and one circuit for the lights (again I do). I wouldn't install a new build like this but its not going to be dangerous and you certainly shouldn't be telling a customer that it needs to be brought up to current wiring regulations before a board change as that is not true.

Good luck... and read the best practice guide(s)!! :smiley2:
 
Re that 520 amps malarkey and using that logic. We have an RFC with a potential draw on it of 156A in the kitchen which is on a 32A RCBO. Should I worry?

Yes you should now run for your lives Trev grab your family and your belongings because your house and entire street is about to spontaneously combust any moment now!!
 
Reading this thread takes me back to some nuisance tripping in social housing where all the tenants are using that much amperage that the distribution board *usually in the caretakers cupboard* tripped out or even the whole street..they'd obviously installed enough for the tenants to enjoy a modern standard of consumerism but hadn't upgraded the communal ones....
 
So a tenant using a lot of current tripped a board intended to cover communal areas which use three tenths of bugger all?
Aye, Ok.
Didn't they have individual CUs in their homes?
 
If being thorough creates doubts, and I seek re-assurance I'll carry on.

Ask a question and be a fool for a minute, don't ask and remain a fool permanently!

Over caution never killed anyone!

If by being thorough you mean barking up the wrong tree then you are certainly doing that, while seeking reassurance on here that you are seeing problems that don't exist how do you reassure the customer that they have chosen someone who is competent to carry out the work they have requested

There are some questions that are asked on here and you WILL remain a fool permanently because you shouldn't need to ask the question if you know what you are doing

I'm sure that there have been times / incidents where being over cautious has resulted in death

Gosh, you've taken a bit of a bashing on this thread haven't you MB! :6:

And your point is what exactly

Too many see the 17th edition as the be all and end all of electrical installation and have an Orwellistic attitude to old installations where old installations / regs are bad new installations / regs are good


Politicians in the past had some notion that there was a skills shortage so they foisted these competent persons scams on us who legitimise these quick training systems and all we have ended up with is the same skills shortage as the shortage of commercial and industrial sparks has not been addressed and the quality and knowledge of what's available in the domestic sector greatly varies skill wise
 
Lets start at the beginning,

I originally asked for a little reassurance on reconnecting a whole house ring main to one 32A RCBO. This has POTENTIAL for nuisance tripping.

If by being thorough you mean barking up the wrong tree then you are certainly doing that, while seeking reassurance on here that you are seeing problems that don't exist how do you reassure the customer that they have chosen someone who is competent to carry out the work they have requested


I don’t believe that I am barking up the wrong tree

I had concerns over connecting the whole house kitchen included onto one 32A RCBO. POTENTIALLY this could result in nuisance tripping at no point did I suggest that it was dangerous.
Unless I am mistaken nuisance tripping on this circuit is not a problem that we can confidently say doesn’t exist.

There are some questions that are asked on here and you WILL remain a fool permanently because you shouldn't need to ask the question if you know what you are doing
This is no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid people who are too frightened to ask questions.
Obviously this is the environment which you would like to engender.

I'm sure that there have been times / incidents where being over cautious has resulted in death


Please enlighten. I am fascinated to learn of too much caution in the electrical industry causing death.


And your point is what exactly
The point is probably that it would be nice if people didn’t read things that aren’t asked. Obviously some of the responders don’t understand plain English and have suddenly decided that because I flagged up a POTENTIAL issue with nuisance tripping, I am somehow suggesting a dangerous installation.
Perhaps it’s time that some of the self righteous know alls got off their high horse read the original post and answered the question in the spirit it was asked.

Too many see the 17th edition as the be all and end all of electrical installation and have an Orwellistic attitude to old installations where old installations / regs are bad new installations / regs are good

Move with the times fellas we are now in the 17[SUP]th[/SUP] Ed era. Stop trying to denigrate it.


Politicians in the past had some notion that there was a skills shortage so they foisted these competent persons scams on us who legitimise these quick training systems and all we have ended up with is the same skills shortage as the shortage of commercial and industrial sparks has not been addressed and the quality and knowledge of what's available in the domestic sector greatly varies skill wise

I spent three years at night school to get my qualifications, including 2391 and picked up some experience along the way working for free. I would have loved to have galvanised my experience by working for someone for a few years before going it alone.

Unfortunately when you are viewed as future competition no one is prepared to give you any help. In the end I decided to go it alone. Its been over two years now and I’m doing very nicely thank you.

I have used this forum to seek advice and guidance not because I don’t know what I am doing but because sometimes I like the reassurance from those more experienced that my thoughts are correct.

I have never suggested or implied any danger in this installation. I do see nuisance tripping as a POTENTIAL issue. If this is my crime then I am guilty.

Hang me.
 
I'm a little puzzled - you want to use RCBO's and then you mention nuisance tripping.

As a spark, by installing a RCBO board you have by passed a lot of the nuisance tripping issues associated with a dual board and thus your job is done.

As for having 1 big socket circuit - well so many installs are like this so move on.
 

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