Bonding dilemma

[growler]

So I turned up to a job today to install an electric heating system for a company I sub for and straight away found that there is no main bonding to either gas or water. They have recently had a new extension / kitchen and a new consumer unit ( no cert though). The gas bond is not an issue as the meter is located next to the consumer unit but the water bond is a fair distance away and the customer is adamant he doesn't want me to disrupt his house anymore than it is already. I can't just walk away either as their wet system Central heating has been removed and the couple are in there 70s.
what to do ?

 

[Chr!s]

Not aware that bonding is required for ADS?

Hope your joking lol section 411 ADS, 411.3.1.2


Regards

 

[telectrix]

spin is correct. bonding has nothing to do with ads. for ads it is required that exposed conductive parts are earthed.the purpose of bonding is to reduce PD between exposed conductive parts and extraneous conductive parts in the event of a fault.

 

[Chr!s]

spin is correct. bonding has nothing to do with ads. for relevantit is required that exposed conductive parts are earthed.the purpose of bonding is to reduce PD between exposed conductive parts and extraneous conductive parts in the event of a fault.[/QUOTE

Your both wrong!

411 sets out the requirements for ADS, you need to meet them, 411.3.1.2 being the relevant section.

regsrds

 

[bugsy]

IHave not read through the whole thread but who did the initial survey prior to the proposed installation
and if if I wasn't carried out our someone's been taught a valuable lesson when providing a quote

 

[telectrix]

spin is correct. bonding has nothing to do with ads. for relevantit is required that exposed conductive parts are earthed.the purpose of bonding is to reduce PD between exposed conductive parts and extraneous conductive parts in the event of a fault.[/QUOTE

Your both wrong!

411 sets out the requirements for ADS, you need to meet them, 411.3.1.2 being the relevant section.

regsrds

you are correct in your post that bonding must be installed. my argument is that ADS relies on earthing of exposed conductive parts to operate, whether or not bonding is installed.

 

[GEOFF S]

Spin

Not aware that bonding is required for ADS?

Tel

spin is correct. bonding has nothing to do with ads. for ads it is required that exposed conductive parts are earthed.the purpose of bonding is to reduce PD between exposed conductive parts and extraneous conductive parts in the event of a fault.

Tel

you are correct in your post that bonding must be installed. my argument is that ADS relies on earthing of exposed conductive parts to operate, whether or not bonding is installed.

Im shocked!!

This is basic stuff, i suggest you read Chapter 41, 411. ADS relies upon various reqiurements!!

Cheers

 

[telectrix]

OK. imagine an installation with no bonding, but with main earthing. we'll say for argument's sake that it has a Ze of 0.3ohms. as there's no bonding, then the pefc will be 230/0.3 = 766.67 A. now tell me that ADS will not operate.

the purpose of bonding extraneous conductive parts is to reduce PD between these and exposed conductive parts in the case of a fault to earth. .

 

[GEOFF S]

OK. imagine an installation with no bonding, but with main earthing. we'll say for argument's sake that it has a Ze of 0.3ohms. as there's no bonding, then the pefc will be 230/0.3 = 766.67 A. now tell me that ADS will not operate.

Okay, so within your equipotential zone, where does the shock risk exist, hand to hand, hand to foot or both.

Cheers

 

[spark 68]

OK. imagine an installation with no services, but with main earthing. we'll say for argument's sake that it has a Ze of 0.3ohms. as there's no bonding, then the pefc will be 230/0.3 = 766.67 A. now tell me that ADS will not operate.

Might be a better way of phrasing it.

I have the popcorn ready

 

[telectrix]

Okay, so within your equipotential zone, where does the shock risk exist, hand to hand, hand to foot or both.

Cheers

i'm not saying that bonding is not essential. what i am saying is that ADS does not rely on bonding in order to operate.

 

[GEOFF S]

OK. imagine an installation with no bonding, but with main earthing. we'll say for argument's sake that it has a Ze of 0.3ohms. as there's no bonding, then the pefc will be 230/0.3 = 766.67 A. now tell me that ADS will not operate.

the purpose of bonding extraneous conductive parts is to reduce PD between these and exposed conductive parts in the case of a fault to earth. .

I think you need to understand there is more to ADS than just disconnection, if you can not understand that then i suggest you become a little more knowledged on how to provide Protection against electric shock (CH41) and how to correctly apply Section 411 ADS.

You clearly have no concept of what it is you are trying to acheive.

Cheers

 

[telectrix]

Might be a better way of phrasing it.

I have the popcorn ready

or "extraneous services" might be even better.

 

[Silly Sausage]

I think you need to understand there is more to ADS than just disconnection, if you can not understand that then i suggest you become a little more knowledged on how to provide Protection against electric shock (CH41) and how to correctly apply Section 411 ADS.

You clearly have no concept of what it is you are trying to acheive.

Cheers

OK, how does the application of 411.3.1.2 contribute to meeting the Max disconnection times in 411.3.2?

(reg numbers are BGB)

 

[GEOFF S]

i'm not saying that bonding is not essential. what i am saying is that ADS does not rely on bonding in order to operate.

You havent answered my question!

If the room containing your exposed conducitve part contained no earth potential is there a shock risk form the exposed conductive part under fault?

Cheers

 

[GEOFF S]

OK, how does the application of 411.3.1.2 contribute to meeting the Max disconnection times in 411.3.2?

(reg numbers are BGB)

Hi

At no point have i suggested it does!!

I clearly stated that if your means of electric schock protection is ADS, if no Protective Bonding is present where required the it would be non compliant.

The replies were, what has bonding got to do with ADS, well as i said read Section 411, its a requirement.

Cheers