BS7671 Vs NFPA-NEC

[Knobhead]

This would sort out most of the dross in this trade.

A legally binding code and compulsory registration.

Yes I know there’s a lot wrong in the NEC, there’s far more wrong in BS7671.

 

[Engineer54]

I’m more interested in the legal requirements which were my reason for starting the thread.
Legal requirements for both the codes and especially the state licensing of electricians. Something this country should adopt. It could get the trade up of its knees.I didn’t intend the thread to be a comparison of installation or testing methods.

The qualified amongst us already know that we should adopt a similar system(s) to US/Aussi, but getting people off their arse's to do something/anything about it is the main problem. They would rather moan about it, than do anything!!

They just can't see the wood for the tree's, especially the very real fact that they would be protecting their livelihood, that in turn will lead to a REAL rise in incomes...

 

[Knobhead]

This was an attempt to get registration and adherence to regulations back in to the forum. Neither of us has anything to gain from this, but like you I’m concerned how the respect for the electrical trade has nose dived.

Had I still been working compulsory national registration would have affected me, not that it would bother me. Industrial electricians should be licensed along with the rest.

 

[Sintra]

Just had a quick look, couldn't as yet find the unit i was talking about, but came across this unit

CT70 - EXTECH INSTRUMENTS - TESTER, AC CIRCUIT LOAD | Newark element14,
Check out the technical data sheet.


It's a hell of a lot cheaper at $200 than the other unit, and DOES give both tripping mA and trip times among other bits and bobs.... Also a relatively easy to make your own test lead so you can test GFCI's or whatever, that are not socket outlet based... (It comes complete with a socket connection lead)

Let me know if this unit meets your needs??...

I think this one is very similar to the unit i was thinking about. If it is then the price will be nearer the $2000 mark. ...lol!!

No, just found a price for this unit, (not that much difference to the unit above) and although it looks similar, the price tell's me differen't!! lol!!

IDEAL INDUSTRIES, INC. - SureTest® Circuit Analyzers

Thanks for your help. I think the CT70 will do what I need.

 

[Knobhead]

Just to clarify for everyone else I’m not talking of registering with the likes of the JIB or the scams. A national register that in order to carry out electrical work you must have a minimum qualification level to carry out work in certain fields.

If national registration were to become compulsory the scams would become redundant along with their resultant lowering of standards. A reasonable level of competency could be set to become registered. No registration, no work.

 

[Sintra]

I’m more interested in the legal requirements which were my reason for starting the thread.
Legal requirements for both the codes and especially the state licensing of electricians. Something this country should adopt. It could get the trade up of its knees.

I didn’t intend the thread to be a comparison of installation or testing methods.

Sorry for taking the thread off topic.

 

[Essex_]

Just to clarify for everyone else I’m not talking of registering with the likes of the JIB or the scams. A national register that in order to carry out electrical work you must have a minimum qualification level to carry out work in certain fields.

If national registration were to become compulsory the scams would become redundant along with their resultant lowering of standards. A reasonable level of competency could be set to become registered. No registration, no work.

I agree. I cannot see any other way. The risk of loosing the right to work because of shoddy workmanship should be enough to get people thinking.

I would be mindful a little that small works will go 'underground' so to speak but definitely the way to go IMO.

 

[ackbarthestar]

Twist nuts and a ridiculously unionised labour force.

Count me in

Ouch !! Why not make it a fully closed shop running it as a superlative layer of bureaucracy sitting on top of Part P, JIB ECS, CDM, HMRC, VAT, CPD. My nuts are beginning to feel very much twisted at the thought......

edit:
1/ Who is going to pay for this? - union subs ?
2/ Who will manage the registration ?
3/ Most of the training has been deregulated so who will now provide the standardized training?
4/ If you think your local representative is a sniffling a**e licking monkey, who will then arbitrate? - I suppose you could apply the JC solution...

I can probably think of more questions

 

[Knobhead]

Ackbar, there’s so many things to resolve.

Throughout history there have been many radical changes. Changes that would have never got off the ground without an initial idea.
As they say Rome wasn’t built in a day.

This may sound callous:
“Part P” was a knee jerk reaction to an MP’s daughter being killed. It’s time for another serious incident to get things back on track.

I’ll be dead before this trade drags itself back to its rightful place but I’d like to think some progress has been made.
By rightful place, I mean at the top as we used to be.

 

[Knobhead]

Essex_, no matter what is done you’ll never stop “Fred at the Red Lion who knows all about electrics” doing work. The threat of a damn big fine for both “Fred” and whoever employs him may just change minds.

BUT, the “registered electrician” must be qualified to a reasonable standard to bring this about.

 

[Essex_]

Ouch !! Why not make it a fully closed shop running it as a superlative layer of bureaucracy sitting on top of Part P, JIB ECS, CDM, HMRC, VAT, CPD. My nuts are beginning to feel very much twisted at the thought......

edit:
1/ Who is going to pay for this? - union subs ?
2/ Who will manage the registration ?
3/ Most of the training has been deregulated so who will now provide the standardized training?
4/ If you think your local representative is a sniffling a**e licking monkey, who will then arbitrate? - I suppose you could apply the JC solution...

I can probably think of more questions

1. The government through general taxation. Money would be saved elsewhere by a drop in electrical fires due to a higher standard of workmanship. A Part P tax that would cover the local BA to inspect the work.

2. All the existing schemes would be made to join together or dissolve. The new body would not be allowed to profit from it's members.

3. City & Guilds would is respected everywhere and would be the sole trainer of choice.

4. All assessors from the new body would beed to be trained to the highest level. Their decision would be final.

 

[Essex_]

Essex_, no matter what is done you’ll never stop “Fred at the Red Lion who knows all about electrics” doing work. The threat of a damn big fine for both “Fred” and whoever employs him may just change minds.

BUT, the “registered electrician” must be qualified to a reasonable standard to bring this about.

Agreed. 'Reasonable'. One of the problems in our game are words like this. I think a clear understanding of what makes an electrician qualified is needed. Words like competent and the like are open to abuse as we have seen. The JIB do have it right if you ask me when it comes to grading. Any half decent spark will walk a NVQ3. And I am sorry. If you cannot cover the range of work required. Tough. That person will have to wait until they do find that range of work before calling themselves an electrician. The government send out very mixed messages along with all the schemes by saying domestic electrical works is the most important to regulate due to the number of deaths and household electrical fires but then say but we will allow the least qualified electricians with the least experience a 'license' to work unaided. On top of that, they will not inspect their work. Nor prosecute when failings are made.

 

[Knobhead]

The point of starting this thread was not to thrash out the details. It’s just my thoughts on the way our trade could progress.

I intended this to be the seed of an idea for others to take on.

 

[Engineer54]

The point of starting this thread was not to thrash out the details. It’s just my thoughts on the way our trade could progress.

I intended this to be the seed of an idea for others to take on.

Fat chance of that Tony, what you'll get is basic apathy or dozy/unrelated remarks about costs etc. They just can't or are just not prepared see the wood for the tree's!! But they'll be the first moaning and groaning about the ludicrously low hourly rates being offered to qualified electricians!!

 

[PEG]

The notion of such a system,is a noble,and practically correct solution...but i do not see it occurring.

There are several industries,where we set "Benchmarks",and,in theory,could do so again...

We could,start extracting coal again,or manufacturing motorcycles...but for now,we won't.

It always goes back to economics. :icon12:

 

[Engineer54]

The notion of such a system,is a noble,and practically correct solution...but i do not see it occurring.

There are several industries,where we set "Benchmarks",and,in theory,could do so again...

We could,start extracting coal again,or manufacturing motorcycles...but for now,we won't.

It always goes back to economics. :icon12:

Well for a start you wouldn't need to be paying 400 quid annual Scam Fees, as ALL qualified electricians would be required to be on a National Qualified Electricians Register!! Any fee's involved would not be subject to shareholders payouts, so would be considerably less than the present main scams.