c&g 236 "c"

[craig]

Anyone know todays version of the city and guilds 236 "c" course I sat years ago ?

 

[fade2gray]

Re: c&g 236 part 4

Sorry for digging up an old thread, but maybe this might clear up the C&G 236 part 4 question.

 

[silver surfer]

Re: c&g 236 part 4

I have also got this qualification.

Your right mate, the 2364 electronics certificate.

It did complete the set 2361,2362,2363,2364. Not sure if was classed as the part 4 though as it was a supplementary electronics certificate.

 

[Ponty Massive]

Just had a look at mine, I sat them in 1994. Bottom of the certs says 236001 236002 (I'm usuming they are 236 pt 1&2?). Also EnTra certificates saying C1? Anyone know ??

Cheers !!!!

 

[maddfridge]

hi there

just checked mine in 1994 it was 236003
236 001 pt1 and 236002 pt2
so it would seem part3 was part c

cheers
mf

allseems a good while ago now done design in2009

now changing yet again ?????????????

 

[tsmith66]

To clarify some of the above queries and remarks;

I did my electrical qualifications in late 70's and through to mid 80's. As displayed on my certificates from all those years ago, the following notation was used.

A and B were done during my block release apprenticeship
C and onwards were done after my apprenticeship completion, on a full day/2 nights basis (I had to also earn a living).

A Certificate C and G 2361 (1978)
B Certificate C and G 2362 (1979)
C Certificate C and G 2363 (1985) (the 15th Edition appeared at the outset of my taking the C Course and hebce
Electronics C and G 2364 (1984)(this relates to the above comment and jpg image which refers to 'part 4')
Testing Methods for Plant and Equipment, together with Utilisation of Electrical Power C and G 2323 (1984)

The 15th Edition appeared at the outset of my taking the C course (the A and B were done on the 14th Edition) and hence the course and project were done to the latest and current standards.

A Certificate was two written and course work assessment
B Certifcate was two written (Electrical Principles and Installation Work/Regs)
C Course was two written (Electrical Science and Installation Work/Regs) and project (completed through 2nd year) mine was a fire station, you were expected to do a minimum number of hours on the project, but in reality if you wanted to do a proper job, it was likely 3 to 4 times that.
Electronics was one written
Testing Methods was one written (this was nothing to do with the 2391, it covered much more than 2391 ever does)
Utilisation was one written

Obviously you had to complete the academic periods to be elegible to sit the exams and were also assessed through and at the end of that period.

All the above I used to progress towards my HNC in electrical Engineering, each of the foregoing were 'credited' towards the ONC (Building Services) and HNC (Electrical Engineering).

In my opinion after some 36 years in the electrical contracting industry, now an electrical engineer/manager, the above qualifications are all valid and recognised within the industry and professional and technical bodies (IET and Engineering Council, etc).

I honestly believe as commented on above, the previous courses and technical qualifications far outstrip the current requirements, they were more indepth, carried out over a longer period and were more thoroughly acquired within the examination criteria.

Whilst I have in the last 3 years obtained 2391, having had to obtain this whilst at one company to enable me to sign off test and inspection sheets (I also conduct testing from time to time), the 2391 is a completely different qualification to the 2363 (C course).

2391 bears no resemblance to it, either in depth or scope but is merely a specific electrical qualification as it title implies. It is not the 'next natural' progression from 2363, never will be and appears very much orientated around the 'domestic' installation.

If you consult the IEE Regulations to enable testing and inspection to be undertaken, you require competence.

If you further consult the Regs, competence is defined as having relevant practical skills, sufficient technical knowledge and experience relative to the nature of the work undertaken and fully versed in the test and inspection procedures set down by the Regs.

Again in my opinion, too many 'chase' the 2391 more for the fact that it is 'more likely to get them a job' but having undertaken large volumes of electrical defect rectification from completed test and inspection sheets from operatives with 2391, it is apparent to me that many people posses the 2391 who are both very limited in their electrical knowledge and unfamiliar with the work undertaken. (example - defect stated as 'no protection on secondary of CT').

Testing was originally done as part of the apprenticeship but it now requires that a seperate qualification is required, however provided you can demonstrate the 'competent person' criteria above, I consider the 2391 is not necessary but accept that possessing it does contribute partly but wholly to demonstrating that competency.

Hope this clears up some of the uncertainty and apologies for the 'rant' over old and new qualifications, in particular 2391.

 

[tsmith66]

Above should read;

I consider the 2391 is not necessary but accept that possessing it does contribute partly but not wholly to demonstrating that competency.

 

[Guest123]

The OP's question was "what is todays equivalent to the 2360 C course"

As I stated in post #2, the current, closest C&G qualification to the C course is the 2391-20, design, erection & verfication. Formerly known as the C&G 2400 and soon to be known as the C&G 2396.

IMO it is not aimed solely at the domestic area, as the majority of the project element are based on a large commercial/industrial type premesis.

 

[tsmith66]

An extract from typical electrical qualification site which basically confirms my statements above non comparison of 2391 and 2394/95 to C course) and hopefully answers to original question;

Inspection and Test - City and Guilds 2396 Design and Verification of Electrical Installations Level 4
Ever since the loss of the 2360 Part 'C' course, there has been no real replacement to allow the humble electrician to move into the field of design. There were previous attempts, such as the C&G2400 and the later slightly changed C&G2391 (confused yet?) but they were not at the same level as the C course. This new qualification aims higher than the previous qualifications did and pitches at Level 4 for the first time.

I still believe however that a 5 day course cannot ever replace the two year C and G 2363 Course C.

Tom Smith

 

[DTM]

Hi guys, Just found this thread
I posted a thread yesterday asking what the 'Electrical instalation part 3' is, required by JIB for technicians grade

From this thread I gather;
it is the old C cert
The closest thing you can do to it now is the 2396, (but its not the same or as good) but will satisfy the jib for technicians grade
But it wont get you entry on to a HNC course

Is that what everyone thinks ? Does anyone know of the top of their heads the min requirements for a HNC course

Cheers

 

[Dean]

I'm Starting my HNC in September. I'm JIB approved with 2391-20 (design & verification) And i also have 3 A-levels. I'm 24 and they were more interested in experience and my A-level!. Once you get to a certain age, qualifications don't count as much for getting into further education. They seem to be more interested in your money/whether you can stick it out.

 

[theskid]

I did the c course passed the project and installation and regulations but failed on electrical science ,so I never bothered about it due to time and money at the time ,is there any way I could complete it so I could get re-graded as an technician by the JIB, as long as they recognise it as a technician qualification. p.s I went on to do my HNC which I managed to pass and obtain ,but that has got me nowhere as far as I'm concerned , I'm still sparking and soon having to become CIS, although I love my job

 

[silver surfer]

Not sure the c course would help towards the JIB technicians card any more. The ECS site Says that you need the 2400 or the 2391-02 or the new design and verification course, plus a bonafide reference from your employer.
http://www.ecscard.org.uk/pdfs/ECS_Card_Application_Form_and_Guidance_Notes.pdf

 

[markthesparkles]

Yes, the 'C' course was what first gave me an interest in the design of installations.

Back then, I only took it because my company was paying and it was more time at college with the lads.

My project was a health centre and I remember spending a ridiculous amount of time coming up with a fixing method and detail for the large examination lights in the assessment rooms, great days, great course!

I remember this back in '89... the Rida Bain Health Centre... and those blasted examination lights in the dental surgeries. I think I might have over-engineered the solution but got a "Credit" pass.