Campaign for an electrician's licence scheme...Please Read...

[darking]

I would have thought JIB accreditation as an approved electrician was just that

 

[Lec]

What you are trying to do seems very admirable, but unfortunately politicians will have to be involved somewhere along the line. What this invariably means is that nothing will actually change, but there will be something else for us to pay out. It's sad but it's true. This is politics' intrinsic quality. As jason said, we need to be policing ouselves - the best thing we can do is start grassing the morons. I know it's one of these things that is 'not done', but at the end of the day there are people out there putting in wholly unsafe installations - if every spark started reportingpoor jobs then we would eventually weed out these guys, and the next generation of cowboys would know better than to mess with electricity.

All a new licencing scheme is going to do is line the government's pockets and put more of us in the dole queue.

Rocker, Your attitude is one of the reasons I got off my --- and started something that CAN make a difference and CAN change the way things are.
Do not under estimate the effect my campaign has already had.
You may like to know that I already have an MP involved.
If we just lie down and accept what we are given, then yes, nothing will change.
For god sake stand up and help me make a difference.
If we work together we can ensure that the licensing scheme works for us not against us.
If we let others take control (believe me they are trying) through apathy, don't be surprised when we end up with a system that we don't want.
I'm interested to know why such a scheme would put you on the dole queue? Good electricians, should prosper from it.

 

[Lec]

I would have thought JIB accreditation as an approved electrician was just that

Darking, the JIB card is along the right lines, but it isn't linked to anything that polices the industry. Once again, it's an attempt, but does not go all the way.

 

[Jason Smith]

All good points, I will always agree that you cant be an electrican with four weeks training. Can I lay a popular misconception to rest. The short courses do not train you to become an electrician. Yes there is training involved, however, the best way perhaps of describing these courses is to say its four weeks of exams, preceeded by months of study.
However, I wish to make a very strong point to you. I was a Police Officer for 20 years. Lets take one particular issue- Drugs. We raided, we arrested, we sent to prison. We kept a lid on the local drugs scene, but do people still use drugs? yes. So do you want to form an entirely different body to deal with the problem ? I can tell you this, it is not possible to deal with it anymore effectively than it is being dealt with. Same as electrical installations. How are you going to prosecute someone you dont even know exists, or where they have worked? yes I agree their work is sat there waiting to possibly kill someone.
Our worst threat is the DIY person who has performed. We see it all the time. Our Target as Rocker says, must be those doing dodgy electrics for money-you have probably seen them, no sign writing on the van, only a mobile number in the paper etc.
I think you will find that if you find them, and report, your governing body will act. If we have issues with the governing bodies, then it is them we should lobby. They will listen to us as we pay them.
Look through this forum and you will see no negative comments about the schemes, just moaning about their fees. Natural. If there was such a lack of confidence in them, then this forum would be red hot with complaints.I think that a possible best course of action would be to establish from each scheme what their policy is on receiving a rogue trader report.
We are chasing one such person locally, as he is bad. Few others that do a bit etc, have been given details of training courses etc, and have taken the hint.

 

[lobsterbob]

Being a "new" member of this forum please excuse my ignorance but in my opinion having yet another license or body (you have ECS, NICEIC, ELECSA, JIB ect ect) isn't this yet another cost to pay out a cost which customers will ultimatly pay for. I've been looking for work for a while now and the criteria keeps changing you need a topman license a cerificate to dig holes G31-1 or something! an asbestos awarness cert, an ECS card - well this all costs money. And although I think yes more qualifications more checks ect are good - what isn't good are DIYers - ban them selling anything electrical to Joe Pubic that way only qualified electricians can purchase, supply and instal eqipment. Even the BS7671 states a competent person - who says whos competnet?? Anyways that's what I think. Peace brothers

 

[Lec]

Hi Lobsterbob.
Please go to the lec webs site. Follow some of the links which will take you to various sites where licensing schemes are in place and your questions will be answered.
Basically, a licensing scheme would address all of the issues you raised.
As far as cost is concerned. No it should not add cost, it should reduce cost.
You will have to be licensed, but membership of associations etc would be your choice.
The cost of joining would reduce as you won't be paying for the assessment as that would be done as part of the licensing system.

 

[rocker]

Rocker, Your attitude is one of the reasons I got off my --- and started something that CAN make a difference and CAN change the way things are.......
......You may like to know that I already have an MP involved......
...........I'm interested to know why such a scheme would put you on the dole queue? Good electricians, should prosper from it...........

What I was saying is that we SHOULD do something about it - we shoud start taking shoddy work seriously and start reporting it.

If you have an MP involved I'm afraid that makes me even less eager to join up.

It will put people in the dole queue because all us good boys who are registered will have to pay through the nose to be a part of it (on top of what we have to pay now - can you seriously see the government CLOSING DOWN the existing schemes and losing all those votes ahem I mean jobs), but the cowboys and the renegade Polaks who are not and never-will-be registered will still do cheap electrical work and force prices down. I'm sure I don't need to spell it out for you, somethings going to have to give.

- Australia and New Zealand don't have a problem with completely unqualified people coming into the country and disappearing. I would say that is more of a contributing factor to their success than having a little photocard or whatever -

The industry is regulated by several organisations. It has gone from a complete free-for-all to where it is now in a few short years. Rome was not built in a day and all that. The part P schemes probably have quite a long way to go, and that will take some time - they need to get everyone registered and educated first, then maybe they can go after the naughty boys.

I have no quarrel with you, and I'm happy to see you're doing something about what you believe in, however I'm sorry but I don't believe in it. We've had quite enough upheaval over the last few years, let's wait and see it through before starting all over again.

EDIT: It looks like my 'closing down the schemes' thing has already been covered, however I still cannot see the Gov't taking these huge organisations and changing their status from 'compulsory' to 'optional'. I reckon they may have something to say about that, and a few lobbyists in their pockets to say it.

 

[DurhamSparky]

no work on today Will...???
nice long post

 

[rocker]

Yep, laundry day. And I've got all my recycling to sort through, of course!

 

[DurhamSparky]

im doing the sums of my business!!!

since 1st Jan i have managed to spend in total including Capital investments £7,553.75 and i have returned the small sum in the region of £2500


not a bad capital investment for the future EYH!!

 

[rocker]

I'm looking at the same kind of balance, ooh nice. Going to try a few new tricks this afternoon and hopefully get some work on. IT'S OUT THERE WE'VE JUST GOTTA GO AND GET IT!!!

By the way did you ever switch on your meteor electricals?

 

[DurhamSparky]

not yet!! its installed and fixed but until i get the nod from

A) the builder B) the plasterer C) the tiler D) the joiner E) the Building Inspector F) the plumber G) the bloke from next door

i have to wait my turn to get access back in to the property..! dont help that the Incomers from property are right next to front door and me working behind said door means nobody canget in and out with out me scouling at them!

also got 9 downlights and the usual stuff to wire in place also!!

Im going to collect a hire car shortly as Focus is now Illegal and i dont have delivery of Van yet so my afternoon is going to be spent poping leaflets in doors! also going to throw my business card in with some leaflets!

 

[aptsys]

Where in your scheme would this leave DIYers/unlicensed individuals? In Australia and NZ, you need to call in a licensed electrician just to replace a light switch or light fitting, yet you could be a perfectly competant industrial electrician.

The last thing we need is more red tape...

 

[Lec]

As an industrial electrician, you would recieve a license if you wanted one. Yes you would have to apply, but as you say, it would save you employing the services of some one with a license.

 

[Lec]

What I was saying is that we SHOULD do something about it - we shoud start taking shoddy work seriously and start reporting it.

If you have an MP involved I'm afraid that makes me even less eager to join up.
Sorry, but they are our elected representitives and the only people that can help push this through !

It will put people in the dole queue because all us good boys who are registered will have to pay through the nose to be a part of it (on top of what we have to pay now - can you seriously see the government CLOSING DOWN the existing schemes and losing all those votes ahem I mean jobs), but the cowboys and the renegade Polaks who are not and never-will-be registered will still do cheap electrical work and force prices down. I'm sure I don't need to spell it out for you, somethings going to have to give. That's what happens now, a licence would make that illegal. Please read the web site and my previous comments, the scheme would be "not for profit", so you would not pay through the nose. There isn't any jobs at risk, again read my previous posts.

- Australia and New Zealand don't have a problem with completely unqualified people coming into the country and disappearing. I would say that is more of a contributing factor to their success than having a little photocard or whatever - Not sure that's realy true?

The industry is regulated by several organisations. It has gone from a complete free-for-all to where it is now in a few short years. Rome was not built in a day and all that. The part P schemes probably have quite a long way to go, and that will take some time - they need to get everyone registered and educated first, then maybe they can go after the naughty boys. So how does Part P control all commercial, Industrial, etc non domestic works. It does not now and will not in the future. Think wider than Domestic.

I have no quarrel with you, and I'm happy to see you're doing something about what you believe in, however I'm sorry but I don't believe in it. We've had quite enough upheaval over the last few years, let's wait and see it through before starting all over again. We have no quarrel, I'm realy pleased you have posted, the feed back in invaluable and you have the right to your beliefs. Do we wait and accept what they decide to give us, or do we make a stand now and get some thing we want? Perhaps I know to much of what is happening behine closed doors within the various organisations.

EDIT: It looks like my 'closing down the schemes' thing has already been covered, however I still cannot see the Gov't taking these huge organisations and changing their status from 'compulsory' to 'optional'. I reckon they may have something to say about that, and a few lobbyists in their pockets to say it.

Are we not more powerfull in numbers. yes the organisations are rattled already, but why should we be worried, after all it's our industry, they act for us. well they should, they just seem to forget it some times.