commercial fire alarm

[Sintra]

Had the privelage of using pyro on the FA & bomb alert systems in our latest project. Loved it.

 

[Guest123]

I love the stuff......as said shame we dont use so much anymore. We have an MI job on the go at the moment though, fire alarm system in a large new hospital.

 

[tazz]

Would be interesting to know which fire alarm manufactures you prefere, also just a tip piro is actually class as enhanced cable so when pricing fp200 (enhanced grade) worth shopping around.

 

[accordfire]

Would be interesting to know which fire alarm manufactures you prefere, also just a tip piro is actually class as enhanced cable so when pricing fp200 (enhanced grade) worth shopping around.

Ah, where to start!

Analogue:

For new install work, up until recently we used a lot of Morley ZX and DX, mostly with Apollo protocol devices.

Lately, we've been persuaded by a lot of factors to go with Advanced/Eurotech more and more - it's very capable kit and doesn't seem to suffer networking issues the way Kentec has in the past. MX-4000 is solid, and MX-5000 looks pretty good. We've had some amazing deals lately on the Eurotech branded kit (essentially MX-4000) using the Nittan protocol - a lot like Hochiki in many ways.

It goes without saying, though that if a particular manufacturer or protocol is specified, we'll use that.

Conventional:

Almost exclusively use C-Tec xFP panels these days, though we have used a lot of Haes stuff too.

Cable:

We tend to stick to FP 200, though more expensive than Fire Tuff, etc, it's the adage of knowing what you're getting. We do try to specify MICC where we can still - though often it's a price thing, given the overhead of labour on MICC, and customers tend to be savvy enough these days to argue the point about enhanced ratings.

It is a sad fact that we're still taking out installations put in with Twin and earth.

Sounders/Warning:

I think we can agree here that loop powered sounders are NOT necessarily a good idea, and should NEVER, EVER, be the only sounders in a system (apart from the non-compliance issues).

We'll use the range here, as with most companies - depending on what's needed. And, key, depending upon in depth audibility/visibility testing.

For PAVA systems, mostly TOA kit, and lately we've used some smaller C-Tec stuff too.

 

[tazz]

Good story on morley-ias and advanced as they were the same directors/company at one time.
Must admit you can`t go wrong with morley good all rounder. advanced/ kentec the same.
not too sure on c-tec panels zones and text not displayed at the same time. VA/PA and disabled refuge you cant go wrong with Baldwin Baxall system cost a bit more, but speak clarity (or RASTA level) are second to none along with their to tech support. Oh yes speaking of Morley the old IAS trident back on the market sold as Global by Portugeese company

 

[tazz]

Talking on loop sounders it is a grey area, but the idea is the isolators should protect would like to see this proved in real situation. BAFE like the a local sounder to the panel at the start of the loop or wired direct to the bell circuit. Issue with XP95 had sticking switches on devices before now, prefer Hochiki especially when fitted high level, then code can be changed without getting up there to replace tag

 

[accordfire]

Good story on morley-ias and advanced as they were the same directors/company at one time.
Must admit you can`t go wrong with morley good all rounder. advanced/ kentec the same.
not too sure on c-tec panels zones and text not displayed at the same time. VA/PA and disabled refuge you cant go wrong with Baldwin Baxall system cost a bit more, but speak clarity (or RASTA level) are second to none along with their to tech support. Oh yes speaking of Morley the old IAS trident back on the market sold as Global by Portugeese company

Yes - known issue on C-Tec analogue panels - we don't use them at all.

I recall Advanced setting up setting up way back too, and everyone hinting that the MX was just going to be another ZX! More Syncro like overall I thought.

That said, totally agree about Morley - it's always been fit n forget in terms of setting up - bullet proof mostly, and you know there's not going to be any real problems out of the box.

Cost wise - the Eurotech badged Advanced stuff seems pretty good, and I'm beginning to enjoy the Nittan stuff too - protocol wise, it has a lot of the best bits of both Apollo and Hochiki.

Ah, the days of the Trident and Juno/Junonet. I don't miss trying to get non_IAS kit to work with some of those jobs! Still got an ultrasonic remote control somewhere though

Global took over pretty well where IAS left off with those panels, concentrating mostly on the Juonet stuff ISTR.

Always had pretty good experiences with Baldwin kit - it's a cost thing as you say. We've used both Omnicare and Vigil kit previously.

 

[tazz]

remember working in Royal mint. had 4 tridents networked and PA/VA, suggest sooner or later the panels would fail and lockout as they always did. On yearly building power down mantanence, all panels crash, O&M listings out of date, renewed with 4 morley`s and was left with no text only device numbers, there to say the next 6 weekends was a 100% test of all devices to idenify locations

 

[accordfire]

Fun days indeed.

Had my share of that too - and especially missing O&Ms, out of date, or missing zone charts, and as you say triggering or dropping one device at a time, to find out what it's actually identified as at the panel....then finding tons of looped out devices nobody bothered recording. Not so bad on a fifty or sixty device system, but when the device count runs to thousands (and split across several panels in some very creative ways) a different story. Many a weekend/night lost to that.

It reminds me though, of the first ever "cause and effect" system I worked on.

The cause and effect was determined by a fifteen foot by ten foot board of relays. It worked amazingly well, but stuff changing a device or the C&E because something else had changed in the building. That was a mission and you could lose a day or more in the relay room easily. Especially finding out things like why a simple change of MCP suddenly started bells ringing four floors away!

Looking back, it was all fairly simple "If" "Then" logic, but staring at over 500 relays on a board with immaculate panel wiring for the first time was, indeed, daunting. Working on it for the first time, doubly so. Device isolation was an art too.....if it wasn't a case of isolating one device in situ for a short time. In those days we often had to double up as fire wardens too if we'd disabled any of the devices.

 

[tazz]

good thing is relays are generally very reliable, as to fire wardens would still advise if panel is isolated or request staff in building to be aware, just an arse covering thing.
Cause & effects, good one I had with sprinklers in Coca Cola, as you know isolation of a zone renders detection only, all call points, and input devices are still opperative under bs, problem was on testing sprinkler once a week all 20 sprinkler zone input units went straight into fire. In the end I used xp95 I/O units with all outputs programmed to event 9, event 9 was programmed as an input from a keyswitch. All I/O`s were then wired to open circuit the own inputs with the relay placing and EOL resistor in circuit. the keyswitch now isolates to sprinklers when tested.