Confused - ECS card

[lockstock]

Confused !

And I’m hoping someone can throw some light on the situ.

I’m going to apply for a ECS card.
My qualifications are: C&G 2360 (1&2) in 2003 , C&G 2391 in 2009 and 17[SUP]th[/SUP] Ed.

ELECSA (I’m part P member) have informed me that 2360 + 17[SUP]th[/SUP] Ed are equivalent to the NVQ 3 required by the ECS people.

However the young guy I spoke to at ECS, was adamant that I had to have the NVQ 3, (informing me with a bunch of tel no.s for suppliers of the course !).

Not wishing to labour the point, I thought I’d see if any of you guys could throw some light on the situation? I.E ‘Who’s correct’ ?

I’ve had a read around, but can’t seem to find anything that specifically states this as a fact, you know, something that I could physically show him, or staple to the enrolment/application form.
I am aware that I’ll have to sit a cscs H&S test and do a AM2 exam (I think), but these can be sorted relatively quickly, where-as the NVQ3, takes plenty of time and money, both I’m short of (aren’t we all?) Plus getting a little fed up with jumping through hoops and coughing up for Red tape (oh, don’t get me, started……)

Thanks in advance

 

[moospark]

JIB is joint industry board, you send them your certs, and they certify your certs? basically yes, it is health and safety, there is no both. ring 'em.

 

[lockstock]

Slight hick up…
Spoke to ECS and to get a trainee card I have to be sponsored by an employer.
As I’m self employed and there is only me, it starts to become complicated again.

Tbh honest I had to get the supervisor on the blower, as I knew more than the dumb-as-e that answered – why don’t they read their own website ???

I’ve checked the contents of the NVQ3 (2357) and its the same stuff as I studied my 2360 part 1&2 and the 2391. So someone is trying to have my leg up and not play the game…. Wonder who that could be ? and Why …. Ca-ching…..
Bottom line is I’ve done what’s required, I may be a bit rusty, but I know how to work safely and that’s a good place to start. I’m probably got get kicked off this site for saying this, but I’ll probably have to Fabricate an employer, so as I can get the Trainee card. The only problem with that, is that reading through the site, the ECS folks give an indication of time line for being a trainee. In other words eyebrows will be raised when in 5 yrs time I’m still a trainee…..

Just one other point, just to hi-light the Dump-ars-s we have to deal with….. as mentioned I spoke to the ‘Supervisor’, when I mentioned that I was a paid up member of Elecsa Part P, she said, that’s fine, but ‘WE’ only recognize Elecsa if you have been registered in the last 3 months….(I’ve been registered for 10 months). ‘Why’ I asked, ‘Oh that was decided by the Steering committee and management’. ‘What if I was with NICEIC or NAPIT’ I said.
She replied, ‘Oh then it wouldn’t matter when you registered – we would recognise the Part P’

I’ve spoke to Elecsa and they’re going Mad about it !!

So far, the impression that I have of these governing bodies isn’t good, not because I’m not getting what I want (okay it’s partly that) but because all they appear to want to do is ‘Rip off’ the worker…… the very same guy that pays their wages. Since I started, we’ve had the Blue book, the Brown book, Part P,the Red book, the 17[SUP]th[/SUP] Ed course work and exam and the Green book. Regs and OGS

And of course, if you haven’t been in the commercial bit, like me, then the Bas**ards don’t recognise the qualifications, ‘They’ made you take !!
Honestly the more I think about it…… well, you just couldn’t make it up….

Cough up or shut up……….. comes to mind.

And not even had a beer yet !

But I hear the offy a-callin

 

[Johnuk]

u need your nvq 3 to be gold card electrician

 

[Monks]

Hey dudes, just wondering if anyone can help me with a query I have about my new card.

I have finally received my gold electrician card after getting round to sending my certs to the JIB. However, my card doesn't have my qualifications (2330 L2 & L3, NVQ L3, & AM2) listed on the back. Do they usually list these qualifications or is the gold card proof enough that you legitimately possess the relevant quals? What makes me laugh is that it says I've done the 17th edition on the back of the card as well, even though I haven't sat the exam yet! LOL.

Am I going to have to send it back and go through the rigmarole of waiting months for a new card again?

Cheers.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

My card (installation electrician) only lists the 17th (used to list the 16th).
It doesn't list my 2360, apparantly because the 2360 no longer exists, it was replaced by the 2330, which I understand also no longer exists and has been replaced by the 2357 or something else.
It also doesn't list my Apprenticeship, because from what I understand, my Apprenticeship was not with a JIB company.
My brother's card (approved electrician), lists his Apprenticeship because it was with a JIB company, doesn't list his 2360, but does list the 17th even though he has never taken either the 17th or the 16th and lists his 2391. From what I can understand because his 2391 certificate was issued after the 17th came into force, the JIB consider him to be trained to the 17th.
However, to be honest, it appears that the JIB make it up as they go along. Neither my brother or myself have an NVQ, but we both have Gold cards.

As for the LUCAS card, you will need either an ECS or CSCS card.
If you only have a trainee card, the LUCAS card will need to be renewed every 3 months, if you have a gold card, then it needs to renewed every 3 years.

 

[Monks]

My card (installation electrician) only lists the 17th (used to list the 16th).
It doesn't list my 2360, apparantly because the 2360 no longer exists, it was replaced by the 2330, which I understand also no longer exists and has been replaced by the 2357 or something else.
It also doesn't list my Apprenticeship, because from what I understand, my Apprenticeship was not with a JIB company.
My brother's card (approved electrician), lists his Apprenticeship because it was with a JIB company, doesn't list his 2360, but does list the 17th even though he has never taken either the 17th or the 16th and lists his 2391. From what I can understand because his 2391 certificate was issued after the 17th came into force, the JIB consider him to be trained to the 17th.
However, to be honest, it appears that the JIB make it up as they go along. Neither my brother or myself have an NVQ, but we both have Gold cards.

As for the LUCAS card, you will need either an ECS or CSCS card.
If you only have a trainee card, the LUCAS card will need to be renewed every 3 months, if you have a gold card, then it needs to renewed every 3 years.

Thanks for the reply, spinlondon.

Your recount of different scenarios leading to different outcomes perfectly explains what is on my card now. I have been told before that as I was at college when the new Regs initially came out, I am technically classed as 'qualified to the 17th edition' (that explains why that is on there, although I still plan to sit the amendment exam as I need it). I did also do my apprenticeship at more than one company as well, so that probably also explains why everything isn't listed on the back of my card.

I thought it was okay, but I just wanted to check just in case as it is a huge pain waiting around for something when you need it to access certain sites.

Thanks again.

 

[dpiers1980]

Why not just do your CSCS card most sites ask for it now and it will get you on site ?

 

[malcolmsanford]

Why not just do your CSCS card most sites ask for it now and it will get you on site ?

If your going to work on electrical systems you will need the ECS card though

 

[dpiers1980]

No you don't that's rubbish I have worked on site with many electricians who just have a CSCS cards, In fact my tutor a college has one and does occasional site work.

Example

[h=5]ELECTRICIAN[/h]

Vacancy from

​

[h=6]Job No:[/h]CGI/70353

Add to 'My job basket'
[h=6]SOC Code:[/h]5241

[h=6]Wage[/h]£13 PER HOUR

[h=6]Hours[/h]45 PER WEEK, MONDAY-FRIDAY, 8AM-5PM.

[h=6]Location[/h]Cambridge, Cambridgeshire CB21

[h=6]Duration[/h]Temporary

[h=6]Date posted[/h]05 November 2012

[h=6]Pension details[/h]No details held



[h=6]Description[/h]Applicants must have a valid CSCS card 17th edition is an advantage, and experience in 1st and 2nd fix on commercial projects. Duties will involve all aspects of electrical work. Temporary for 3 weeks.

[h=6]How to apply[/h]You can apply for this job by telephoning 0161 8830570 and asking for Matthew Leak.

[h=6]Employer[/h]Hexa Construction

 

[frank3323]

deffo no JIB gold card approved electrician without NVQ3, 2391, ECS health and safety exam, i had no apprentiship deeds as apprentice for non JIB company and had to send all my quals and employer references. i know trainee card is all of the above without NVQ3 and i think electrician is all of the above without 2391.

JIB are a scam but its surprising how many company's ask for it, most places in Norway now ask for DSB and JIB cards?? and i find for 36 quid it is a simple way to prove qualifications and get on sites.

 

[malcolmsanford]

hmmmmmmmmm thank you for pointing out that I spouting rubbish.

So your saying that the sites you work on allow holders of the basic CSCS card and not the ECS/CSCS card to work on electrical systems.

Well I know that I've been out of the UK for a couple of years now, but if there was ever an incident and it was found that a CSCS basic card holder was working on electrics, the proverbial would hit the fan !!!!

You do know that the JIB cards is a joint CSCS/ECS card don't you

 

[dpiers1980]

My dad is 66 he has been working as a spark for 50 years and he has never had a JIB card nor wanted one for that matter all this JIB,ECS,IPAF,etc etc you can keep going just government quangos trying to get more money out of people I have been working on building sites since I was 18 I am 32 now and I have never seen an electrician (agency) get turned away from any job just because he has a CSCS card and before CSCS cards I have seen plenty of competent sparks get on site with no cards at all. And as for 2391 I don't get why all these sparks are rushing out to do it when it means nothing now you routinely see jobs £13 £14 £15 an hour now for 2391. What so you can have more responsibility than non 2391 but get paid pretty much the same ?

 

[frank3323]

fair point but in getting the job in the first place a reputable employer would normally ask for proof of quals, 17th, 2391, and CSCS / ECS / JIB card. better qualifications usually mean more job prospects and more money, also a decent employer would normally pay for any new courses and renewals that come out.

 

[malcolmsanford]

So what your saying is that a plasterers labourer who has the basic CSCS card is allowed to work on any Electrical system on a site .....................seems the industry is in a worse condition than I thought.

Well I have to bow to you as I no longer work on big UK sites, though for the past 20 yrs up to 2010 on every site induction morning I did, and I agree not all sites use to do this, I had to produce my JIB ECS card for it to be copied and logged in order to work on electrics.

 

[dpiers1980]

No that.s no what i'm saying

My CSCS card runs out in Feb so i'm going to renew it I have done level 2 electrical installation, 17th, 2392, and am doing level 3 for next year and a half. Am I right in saying unless you have NVQ3 you can't get a ECS card that's like saying unless your time served apprentice your not an electrician and you should not be working in the trade.

But with my quals I am classed as a conpentant person is that right in regard working in electrical installation ?