Confused - ECS card

[lockstock]

Confused !

And I’m hoping someone can throw some light on the situ.

I’m going to apply for a ECS card.
My qualifications are: C&G 2360 (1&2) in 2003 , C&G 2391 in 2009 and 17[SUP]th[/SUP] Ed.

ELECSA (I’m part P member) have informed me that 2360 + 17[SUP]th[/SUP] Ed are equivalent to the NVQ 3 required by the ECS people.

However the young guy I spoke to at ECS, was adamant that I had to have the NVQ 3, (informing me with a bunch of tel no.s for suppliers of the course !).

Not wishing to labour the point, I thought I’d see if any of you guys could throw some light on the situation? I.E ‘Who’s correct’ ?

I’ve had a read around, but can’t seem to find anything that specifically states this as a fact, you know, something that I could physically show him, or staple to the enrolment/application form.
I am aware that I’ll have to sit a cscs H&S test and do a AM2 exam (I think), but these can be sorted relatively quickly, where-as the NVQ3, takes plenty of time and money, both I’m short of (aren’t we all?) Plus getting a little fed up with jumping through hoops and coughing up for Red tape (oh, don’t get me, started……)

Thanks in advance

 

[malcolmsanford]

No that is not what I'm saying at all, without the NVQ or a time served apprenticeship you can not get the gold JIB/ECS electricians card.

You can still get adult trainee/mate/etc from the JIB which is a ECS card which will allow you to work on electrical systems. But you will not get the full Electricians rate for that as your not classed as a sparks

It is hard I agree but there have to be some sort of goal posts for the JIB to work to a grade people at. The NVQ and apprentice route is their goal posts for full electricians, and that is it i'm afraid.

You maybe able to drive a car, very well, and have taken the written test etc and passed, but unless you take the actually practical test, you will not be able to get a job as a driver no matter how good you are.

 

[frank3323]

if you do not have NVQ3 you cannot get an electricians card, but you would be graded as a trainee and have a trainee card, thats the only difference.

 

[dpiers1980]

Yeah but why would you want one when most jobs don't pay JIB rates anyway and like I said at the start you can get on site with CSCS card

example 2

[h=5]ELECTRICIAN[/h]

Vacancy from

​

[h=6]Job No:[/h]HOQ/39685

Add to 'My job basket'
[h=6]Employer Reference:[/h]Sussex EO1

[h=6]SOC Code:[/h]5241

[h=6]Wage[/h]£14.00 PER HOUR

[h=6]Hours[/h]9 HRS A DAY

[h=6]Location[/h]HENFIELD, WEST SUSSEX BN5

[h=6]Duration[/h]Temporary

[h=6]Date posted[/h]06 November 2012

[h=6]Closing date[/h]16 November 2012

[h=6]Pension details[/h]No details held



[h=6]Description[/h]This vacancy is due to start on 19/12/2012 and end on 14/06/2013. Electrician required for 6 month contract in Sussex. Working on water treatment sites. General industrial installation work involved. Must have previous experience. Must be qualified and hold a JIB or CSCS card. References and CV will be required. Caval 0113 2031242.

[h=6]How to apply[/h]You can apply for this job by telephoning 0113 2031242 and asking for Matthew Chapman.

[h=6]Employer[/h]Caval Ltd

 

[Guest55]

Yeah but why would you want one when most jobs don't pay JIB rates anyway.

the satisfaction in having your skills and experience acknowledged by an independant authority.
the convienince of getting on site without carrying any quals or documents.
a sense of pride in achieving a goal.
anyone in electrical for the money is deluded quite frankly.

 

[MDJ]

CSCS is only health and safety though, the person who wrote the advert didn't know what they were asking for, a JIB card is a card which reconises your skill level, everyone who works on site generally has a CSCS qualification, it is 48 quid and an hours chat with someone who knows a tiny bit about site safety, as an employer myself I wouldn't touch anyone with out a qualification card if I wanted a skilled man, even a chimp can pay 48 quid for a H&E chat and get a piece of paper saying they nodded their heads enough to be compliant on H&E matters lmao.

 

[brucelee]

Slight hick up…
Spoke to ECS and to get a trainee card I have to be sponsored by an employer.
As I’m self employed and there is only me, it starts to become complicated again.

Tbh honest I had to get the supervisor on the blower, as I knew more than the dumb-as-e that answered – why don’t they read their own website ???

I’ve checked the contents of the NVQ3 (2357) and its the same stuff as I studied my 2360 part 1&2 and the 2391. So someone is trying to have my leg up and not play the game…. Wonder who that could be ? and Why …. Ca-ching…..
Bottom line is I’ve done what’s required, I may be a bit rusty, but I know how to work safely and that’s a good place to start. I’m probably got get kicked off this site for saying this, but I’ll probably have to Fabricate an employer, so as I can get the Trainee card. The only problem with that, is that reading through the site, the ECS folks give an indication of time line for being a trainee. In other words eyebrows will be raised when in 5 yrs time I’m still a trainee…..

Just one other point, just to hi-light the Dump-ars-s we have to deal with….. as mentioned I spoke to the ‘Supervisor’, when I mentioned that I was a paid up member of Elecsa Part P, she said, that’s fine, but ‘WE’ only recognize Elecsa if you have been registered in the last 3 months….(I’ve been registered for 10 months). ‘Why’ I asked, ‘Oh that was decided by the Steering committee and management’. ‘What if I was with NICEIC or NAPIT’ I said.
She replied, ‘Oh then it wouldn’t matter when you registered – we would recognise the Part P’

I’ve spoke to Elecsa and they’re going Mad about it !!
So far, the impression that I have of these governing bodies isn’t good, not because I’m not getting what I want (okay it’s partly that) but because all they appear to want to do is ‘Rip off’ the worker…… the very same guy that pays their wages. Since I started, we’ve had the Blue book, the Brown book, Part P,the Red book, the 17[SUP]th[/SUP] Ed course work and exam and the Green book. Regs and OGS

And of course, if you haven’t been in the commercial bit, like me, then the Bas**ards don’t recognise the qualifications, ‘They’ made you take !!
Honestly the more I think about it…… well, you just couldn’t make it up….

Cough up or shut up……….. comes to mind.

And not even had a beer yet !

But I hear the offy a-callin

THIS IS WHAT JIB HAVE JUST TOLD ME MATE regarding elecsa

I am registered with elecsa and to get a qualified supervisor status written on the card they said that the elecsa part p competence achievment cert for a assessed enterprise had to be issued within last 3 months
which to me sounded a little strange
So someone who has been registered say for 5 yrs has to wait for the annual assessment coming around and have a new cert
You will need to do a NVQlv 3 if you havnt done a apprenticeship also
as others have said basically in past you could have got Grandfather rights No pun intended
were they would have let you have one with references from your employer
if you have a NVQ then you dont have to take the ECS health and safety test for 5 yrs
if you dont you will have to take the test and still wont get the JIB GOLD CARD

Getting info from them at the JIB isnt easy I do it by email then i have what they say in writing as everytime i have rang them you just get some sales rep telling you to fill the form and pay the fee with no helpful info whatsoever

 

[martinh287]

Cscs- have to have it to get on any considerate construction site (all sites)
Ecs- need this to get jib card ( cscs card with electrical questions)
JIB card- proves your electrical compantancy

All money grabbing schemes I am currently involved in the testing of 27 sites from most big company's bam, tolent, mcclaren, keir, inter serve, Barr Morgan sindall and Simpsons from prisons, schools morrisons, sainsburys, primarks etc and on induction I only ever hand over my cscs card and my plasma, I obtain work permits, isolation certificate and live work permits as long as my risk assessment method statement is signed that Is all the sites ask for.

As for grading on job card Nvq 3 has to be obtained for electrician grading crazy but has to be done I'm afraid

 

[farmerian]

I have done my 2330 Level 2 and 3, 17th edition, if I did my Esc test could I get a graded JIB card ?

 

[martinh287]

I have done my 2330 Level 2 and 3, 17th edition, if I did my Esc test could I get a graded JIB card ?

No I have 2330 lvl 2+3 2382, 2377,2391 part p ecs and I can't get graded a electrician until I have completed the Nvq lvl 3 and the AM2, to have a gold card I need to be graded as a electrician for 2 yrs in employment in the electrical industry

I agree it should be difficult to be graded a electrician but the Nvq is a joke

 

[Guest55]

I have done my 2330 Level 2 and 3, 17th edition, if I did my Esc test could I get a graded JIB card ?

yes you will get a jib graded card.
the grading will probably be trainee.

 

[dpiers1980]

Do you honestly think that these agents don't know what there on about mate (well some of them) ? I know what a ECS card is I know what a CSCS card is and i'm telling you you can get on site with a CSCS card I have been on many as a electricians mate. You know working with electricity and I have worked with alot of electricians on site who just have CSCS cards who are good electricians who wont go near JIB. My tutor at college has a CSCS card and does site work don't go thinking for one minute that JIB are the only cards on site.

 

[MDJ]

As some of us have mentioned, a CSCS card will get you on site, probably as a bricklayers mate, but a JIB card will actually show what grade you are within the industry, 2 completely different cards.

 

[dpiers1980]

As some of us have mentioned, a CSCS card will get you on site, probably as a bricklayers mate, but a JIB card will actually show what grade you are within the industry, 2 completely different cards.

I don't care mate did you read my last post

 

[MDJ]

yeah your running down JIB cards, and promoting CSCS cards "mate" as mentioned yet again they are completely different and cannot be compaired at all, even a chimpanze can get a CSCS card if he has 40 quid.

 

[shagbite]

Cscs- have to have it to get on any considerate construction site (all sites)
Ecs- need this to get jib card ( cscs card with electrical questions)
JIB card- proves your electrical compantancy

All money grabbing schemes I am currently involved in the testing of 27 sites from most big company's bam, tolent, mcclaren, keir, inter serve, Barr Morgan sindall and Simpsons from prisons, schools morrisons, sainsburys, primarks etc and on induction I only ever hand over my cscs card and my plasma, I obtain work permits, isolation certificate and live work permits as long as my risk assessment method statement is signed that Is all the sites ask for.

As for grading on job card Nvq 3 has to be obtained for electrician grading crazy but has to be done I'm afraid

there's no way i'm handing over my goggle box to get on ANY site