Cooker control unit - inside cupboard?

[NoSparks]

Obviously preferable to be outside, but if needs must. However please not that Part P requires that electrical accessories are NOT mounted on kitchen units. On the wall at the back and protruding through seems fine, but would it then be accessable?

Sorry - I wrote this before I realised there were 3 pages of argument. However it does not change the fact that Part P is Part P and irresepective of the NIC or ELECSA saying it's OK that doesn't change Part P. I will phone them myself tomorrow.


See follow-on note below.

 

[andyb]

Obviously preferable to be outside, but if needs must. However please not that Part P requires that electrical accessories are NOT mounted on kitchen units. On the wall at the back and protruding through seems fine, but would it then be accessable?

Sorry - I wrote this before I realised there were 3 pages of argument. However it does not change the fact that Part P is Part P and irresepective of the NIC or ELECSA saying it's OK that doesn't change Part P. I will phone them myself tomorrow.

I've had a quick look through part p and all I could find was on page 10 under accessability, which mentions wall mounted sockets etc. It makes no mention in that section about accessories in cupboards.

Where in part p does it say that you cannot have a switch in a cupboard?

 

[NoSparks]

I'll look it up for you but will be later today.

 

[Dave]

Sorry to go off topic but if you mods want to bring a members attention to their behaviour either infract them, send a pm etc dont write in red all over the place your not a school teacher marking homework.

The mods do a good job on here and do not need critism from members...

When a members signs up to this forum you have a set of rules to read before clicking " I agree " , so if members adhere to the rules then there is no need to edit.

And i don't want our mods spending more time pm'ing members about posts when it is quicker to edit and leave a reason why..thats how we like the rules on moderation.

And why hand out infraction just for sake of it...?

I thank you for your concerns but WE will run this forum as we want to and not dictated by your goodself or any other member.

I would have pm'd you but seen as you did this publicly then i will.

If you have any more issues then do feel free to pm me.

thank you..

 

[NoSparks]

I have been perusing Part P and for the moment cannot identify the recomendation for all accessories to be affixed to the fabric of the building. Since other have used the same wording I am totally convinced I have seen it somewhere, but for now I withdraw my previous statement.

 

[skatingsparks]

This is a funny post, everyone getting irate over a Isolator in a cupboard. I'm going to say its fine, not ideal but fine. Besides its an Isolator, not really a safety switching device isn't it? To isolate for the purpose of maintenance, repair and servicing. I would still say it need to be easily accessible though. Just my opinion, wouldn't fail it in PIR.

 

[Spudnik]

Agree, in fact its never even been questioned in any of my assessments.

 

[sparks1234]

Hells teeth, this thread has almost become polite, someone shut it down quick

 

[ash_s3]

So it's either comply with part P and fit it to the fabric of the building at the back of the cupboard behind the cornflakes, ketchup, other general junk people cram in cupboards...

or do the 'common sense' thing and stick it just inside the cupboard on the one side, surface mounted, making it visible and accessible as soon as you open the door.

I know what i'll be doing from now on....

 

[sparks72]

Been in the game 20 years, fitted many isolators in cupboards, been with approved body for 10 years, had work inspected many times over the years, never had a complaint yet, if a kitchen cupboard is a combustible surface then why are we still fitting consumer units to wooden boards

 

[acvc]

I'm sure it's in the Building Regs green book not to fix to kitchen furniture. The qualifier used there is "should not". So I suppose that means preferably not, but if you have to do it, then ok.

Surely a way forward from this lack of clarity is to label the cooker/oven stating clearly where the closest isolation is located, e.g. 'Emergency Switch located at back of/inside right wall of cupboard below this cooker/oven". Obviously, the switch and cupboard must be below, not above.

I know it might not look too pretty, but we have to label other switches to indicate what they control elsewhere, such as FCUs for the dishwasher/washing machine don't we?

So: anywhere within 2 m, easily accesiible, fixed to kitchen furniture if no other option and noted on Cert, and its location clearly labelled on the applaince itself. .

 

[professional]

The issue of kitchen cabinets and wiring accessories has been floating around for years. Forget Part P, it`s irrelevant rubbish with regards to regulations - it is BS7671 that we

ust work to and will be judged by if push comes to shove. The requirement is that wiring accessories should only be located on PERMAMENTLY fixed items, effectively

aking them part of the fabric of the building. The idea that such items exclude the use of fitted kitchen cabinets is a throw-back to the days of seperate,

oveable kitchen units - and the great leviathons that are the IET and ESC have never updated their attitudes to encompass change within OUR industry.

With regards to accessability of the cooker switch - I fear that this will remain a grey area- use common sense - be prepared to argue your point if need be with your assessor ( I ALWAYS HAVE - and have gained greater respect bacause of it!).

Remember, if you feel that you are not being allowed to use common sense (or being listened to by your scheme provider) you should vote with your wallet.............

 

[ohmeelectrical]

The electricians guide to the building regs (part p) states that wiring accessories should be mounted on the building fabric and not on kitchen furniture (it is in section 5.2 Kitchens and see regulation 530.4.2 of BS7671).
It goes on to state that integrated appliances should be connected to either a readily accessible socket of be fed by a double pole isolator or fused connection unit that is readily accessible. It is a fundamental principle that an isolator be easily recognised and effectively and rapidly operated as it may be used as an emergency control (regulation 132.9 BS7671). An isolator hidden in a kitchen unit clearly does not comply with this regulation.
An assessor would probably not see a switch in a unit as a major non-compliance, but could pull you up on a bad day.

 

[sparks72]

The issue of kitchen cabinets and wiring accessories has been floating around for years. Forget Part P, it`s irrelevant rubbish with regards to regulations - it is BS7671 that we

ust work to and will be judged by if push comes to shove. The requirement is that wiring accessories should only be located on PERMAMENTLY fixed items, effectively

aking them part of the fabric of the building. The idea that such items exclude the use of fitted kitchen cabinets is a throw-back to the days of seperate,

oveable kitchen units - and the great leviathons that are the IET and ESC have never updated their attitudes to encompass change within OUR industry.

With regards to accessability of the cooker switch - I fear that this will remain a grey area- use common sense - be prepared to argue your point if need be with your assessor ( I ALWAYS HAVE - and have gained greater respect bacause of it!).

Remember, if you feel that you are not being allowed to use common sense (or being listened to by your scheme provider) you should vote with your wallet.............

The most sensible post I have ever read, under part "pee" we have
building inspectors who have become Electrical inspectors..............."overnight" !!!
I am seeing more & more amateur questions regarding even the most simple of installations over & over again !

 

[professional]

The electricians guide to the building regs (part p) states that wiring accessories should be mounted on the building fabric and not on kitchen furniture (it is in section 5.2 Kitchens and see regulation 530.4.2 of BS7671).
It goes on to state that integrated appliances should be connected to either a readily accessible socket of be fed by a double pole isolator or fused connection unit that is readily accessible. It is a fundamental principle that an isolator be easily recognised and effectively and rapidly operated as it may be used as an emergency control (regulation 132.9 BS7671). An isolator hidden in a kitchen unit clearly does not comply with this regulation.
An assessor would probably not see a switch in a unit as a major non-compliance, but could pull you up on a bad day.

Where in BS7671 does it state that fitted kitchens are NOT to be used for fixing accessories i.e. that fitted units are NOT part of the fabric of the building?

I don`t bother reading guidance notes - every set is different. Read BS7671 and forget all of the politically

otivated drivel.